welcome everybody to another episode of hard truths podcast I'm your host Ashen Forbes and today I have a very specialguest Dr John brandenberg he's a plasma physicist he's been well known in theUFO communities for his opinions and his uh as his physics and and science aroundthe potential nuking of Mars today we're going to talk about gem unification Theory we're going to talk about quantummechanics plasma aliens Mars everything John brandenberg thank you very much forjoining me today oh it's a great pleasure and honor to be on your show uh Ashton be talking to youJohns backgroundyeah and let's just start right away I want to dig into the secret science government stuff tell us a little bit about your background in terms of yourconnections to the government any defense contractors or any contract work that you've been doing uh in your lifeoh uh yes well uh I kind of became part of the defense research establishment uhback in when I was getting my gra uh PhD I did it at Lawrence Livermore NationalLab at a q clearance uh then I went from there to another L lore lab is a labdoing uh energy experiments and then also they designed hydrogen bombs on the other end of the lab um and I worked atboth ends um uh then uh I went to Sandia NationalLabs and another nuclear weapons lab and worked on directed energy weapons thereum uh I didn't uh work directly on nuclear weapons uh but I picked up a lot ofknowledge uh they were kind of always trying to recruit me and get me interested in it and so they told me alot of stuff and which I had a clearance for um what years mind me asking okay uhoh I started there in 1975 and I finished my PhD in1981 then I went to San die National Labs and worked there uh till about1985 and so you knew we had directed energy weapons back in the 80s oh absolutely absolutely it was itwas a big program at Livermore and at San die do you think they could shoot them off of satellites or what do youDirected Energy Weaponsthink the where do you think these were connected to these directed energy weapons uh the uh the directed energyweapons we worked were Electron Beam weapons um and we were focused on on uhshooting down basically just missiles it was very it was very tactical uh it wasthe idea of protecting ships you know like aircraft carriers from cruise missiles and uh uh Electron Beam hits alot harder than a laser uh you hit something with a laser most of the energy just bounces off and reflects uhbut the uh Electron Beam would go right through it and uh um so we uh hey and II thought I did a really good job I I saved the project at at San die butpolitics uh was such that uh I violated procedures when I saved theproject by contradicting one of my uh management and so uh my reward was uhbasically they said uh we don't want you to work here anymore I want you to go someplace else and so I did I went toMission research Corporation in Washington DC which was then part of theReagan arms buildup the Star Wars so then I went to Washington DC and I had atop secret clearance then uh and uh worked with the Pentagon and the Intelagencies U on U basically space plasmauh type applications I worked on Fusion Energy also andyou're hitting a lot of topics I want to talk about first of all I need to understand this concept of Q clearance I've heard this mentioned all the timeQ ClearanceCLE related to energy or what is clearance Q clearance I've never heard of that q q clearance is specificallyit's a department of energy clearance uh related to knowledge of how nuclear weapons work and uh what their effectsare um and you know it's like it's it you know the Q clearance is just kind of anentry level uh it's it's equivalent to the military topsecret clearance which I when I left uh Sandia labs they simply just transferredmy clearance from being a q clearance to being a top secret clearance with the Pentagon so I could work on uh on directenergy weapons and space uh defense um uh so you have ndas you can't talk aboutNDAscertain stuff still to this day I mean that was 50 years um not really uh do they run out or howdoes that work well the subjects that I worked on are now kind of unclassified yeah thereare a few things I'm not supposed to talk about and okay but those are not those are not big deals uh uh especiallyin in the context of Mars and U uh the whole UFO UAP thing I was never readyinto those programs um I I basically just most of the stuffI did heard about the UFO UAP thing was around the coffee machine and the coolerin these classified facilities where I worked um what people were saying basically just like work colleagues andstuff like that talking absolutely absolutely they would because of my Marswork everyone was aware that I'd been involved in uh working on a dead civilization on Mars so people felt freeto discuss things that they had uh knew that they knew or heard heard about UFOphenomenon and uh it was a frequent topic of conversation especially justbefore 911 when I was uh yeah I was working in uh with the agencies of thePentagon u in um a classified you knowwork setting where everything we did was was classified so you were a contractor when you were working with the PentagonContractorsand came back in the 90s then and had secret clearance or top secret clearance uh yes I was a I was a uhcontractor working for Mission research Corporation then I was a private consultant then I also worked um for acompany called the Aerospace Corporation it's the Air Force Think Tank and theywould basically you were considered just a staff scientist they would basically send youto sites to work on various problems and really that's how that works hold onAerospace Corporationthat's useful I don't think people know that so Aerospace Corporation is a think tank for the Air Force they would hireon scientists and then just send them to go do Project work oh yeah and you'd have a security clearance and then theywould send you to various uh agencies around town in WasingWashington DC to work on various projects and U uh so uh you would uhthere was no there wasn't any working remotely it was all uh office workinside classified facilities but my job my badge said Aerospace corporation which was a veryuh you know it was a very nondescript kind of uh name that the Air Force hadadopted so would attract any ention they love their nondescript names like howCommunication System these people these Spooks they know how to do it it was allAshton it was all pretty spooky and uh you know uh I heard a whole bunch ofstuff about uh you know people were talking quite frankly about UFO kind ofphenomenon when I was working in these classified facilities and so finallyafter 911 um yeah I left uh simply because the money all went for boots andbullets uh in Afghanistan and uh so um I I took a job down in Florida atthe Kennedy Space Center working uh for the Florida space Institute and I as Iat my farewell luncheon with a bunch of people from the agency I said you know I'd always wanted to write some sciencefiction uh uh and I heard a lot of interesting things around the water cooler and you know coffee machine inthe hall before and after meetings and I was going to kind of put that all in the science fiction novel what do you thinkof that and they and to my surprise they very positive they said John we lovedyour reports if you write a novel a science fiction novel with all this stuff that you heard in there we'll readit and makes just that's fine with us as long as it's labeled science fictionso I made it a science fiction soap opera you know and it it's Morning Star pass the collapse of the UFO cover upI'd just gone through 911 and one of my bosses commented uhand were're there in DC going through 9911 and one of my bosses commented twoweeks after it had happened he said if this could happen anything couldhappen and uh so in my uh in my two women of course glamorous newsanchors bring down the UFO cover up at finally at Great risks of their livesand there's an attempted Cita by the secret government which says the UFOcover up is too big to fail so there's actually a tank tank battles in the streets of Washington DC at Capitol Hilland uh and kind book my kind of story I like it oh oh absolutely absolutelytravel in it what was there any time travel in it uh no there you know was there was aflashback or two but uh no I'm uh I'm not a big fan of of time travel as aphysicist um you know like the second law of Thermodynamics basically and theexpansion of the universe those are kind of things that determine the uh the arrow of time and um you can't make allthe galaxies come back closer together and uh by that token then you can't goback in time and uh we all wish we could go back in time and do things a little bit differently than we did you know butuh have you ever seen uh these experiments they do where they are looking at waves and big pools of waterand they drop like a rock or a big heavy object in there and they then look at the wave and kind of like model out thewave well this is the reason why I think that you might be mistaken now I've had the samethat you just mentioned on on Time Travel but it looks like there is quoteunquote a Time reversed wave that you can see basically the reflection of allwaves that occur and if that's true then yes you're right everything's getting more and more complicated spreadingapart but then couldn't you with a smart enough computer or brain you knowreverse things back to the state that they were or you know model out where they would have been in the past andfigure it out oh oh precisely Ashton your your intuitive um your intuitiveunderstanding is correct microscopically physics is timereversible it's only when you look at the big picture A bunch of moleculesinteracting instead of just like two of them two of them you can reverse timebut if you have a bunch of them the second law of Thermodynamics takes overthe same way with the Universe um an individual Galaxy you think well it'sjust sitting there spinning um you could you know go back in time but all of thegalaxies are spreading apart and that that gives you a definite time sense butthe only times I've ever been really wrong about anything ashon is when I said something isimpossible so I considered unlike I considered unlikely but notimpossible that they could do time travel um it's a great topic for sciencefiction I wrote a science fiction short story about that and uh uh and the guy went back in time andhe was trying to witness the birth of Jesus and everything everything wentwrong he was arrested by a spy by the Romans andfogged almost died because he he missed the time uh to be there so everyeverything everything went wrong and he and he ended up being stranded back in the past and uh yeah there's a lot ofTime Manipulationparadoxes especially with going to the Past you know and that's why I think that I agree with you that maybe ifthere is a way to manipulate time it's not going to be the science fiction I'm going back to 1957 to you know kill mygrandfather and then stop existing it would to me it would be more of like life extension technology like theability to reverse a tumor or something like that in like a localized absolutely yeah and and I'll I'llmention one thing to there there's a very important piece of physics done bywheeler and Fineman you know dick feeman who got the Nobel Prize for 1965uh developed the black hole Theory and also he helped he he engineered thehydrogen bomb he was in charge of actually I know which bolt which kind ofbolts to use etc etc and it worked and but they came up with a theory and theyfound out that the future can talk to the Past yeah it's so there's there's ifyou ask somebody like like me okay can you go back into past and uhkill your grandfather or something like that I would probably say I think that'svery unlikely but can you talk to your grandfather in thepast yes apparently that is that is allowed by physics and this is somethingAsh you got to realize the physics Community is almost like a big country club where certain things are notdiscussed scandalous things like uh the affair of the uh uh head of the countryclub with his secretary you know these things are just not discussed at meetings or at the uh and so therethat's wheeler Fineman Theory basically says the propheticknowledge agrees with physics um like for instance one of thereasons I decided to write science fiction is because I realized science fiction was prophetic so many times yeahthat you had to like somebody wrote this uh novel called futility it didn't sellwell with that title but was about a great big steamship full of rich people travelingacross the Atlantic at high speed for the first time runs into an iceberg and sinks with massive loss of life and itwas named the Titan in his novel and if you look at the measurements the description of the ship it matches theTitanic almost exactly it was written 12 years before the Titanic disaster yeahPredictive Programmingthere's a lot of predictive programming and like you know even Ben rich said that everything that you can imagine in Star Trek is already been figured out ohit has I I I I believe Roddenberry was on the he was in the loop they toldthere saw too of uh X Files where X Files was talking about Zero PointEnergy and capabilities as well which I have a feeling is end up being proven true itdoes make you wonder how much of this stuff to your point about the books and the movies and the content we consume ispeople that are in the know and they're writing the stuff under the this idea of it being fiction when in reality I'm anexam I'm an example of you know in fact I I joke I said I am the clueless toolof the US government you know and that I they they basically encouraged me towrite all stuff about UFOs in as science fiction and uh I raninto some people from the uh agencies I worked with and they had read the noveland they said John how did you know all that stuff you know and I said why just I just guessed a lot of it and they saidwell you're a really lucky guesser and uh so it's a u there's a lot of stuff inHollywood movie science fiction movies that I believe was directly provided bythe agencies to Hollywood um get us comfortable with the idea of this technology and other lifeHollywood Propagandaexisting or something more nefarious oh well uh oh well the ever since World WarII and and before that the British film board basically would use movies as apropaganda tool to prepare like they they they've made point theage they'retrying s you know I think well they have they've been trying to bring the publicup to speed believe it or not their intent their overarching intention is thatcertain things will become kind of commonknowledge but not certain other things uh you know they um like I found outthat uh for instance Roswell was actually the Roswell incident was ashoot down it wasn't two saucers crashed in the middle of the night they didn'tcrash they were shot down apparently so I wrote a book about that what by radaror something else oh they were shot down by uh they got bit by a black widow uh which wasthe Air Force's night fighter at the time was a World War II night fighter was a twin it was twin p an enginefighter it but it had radar in the nose it had was very heavily armed with 420mimet cannons and then a turret on top with 450 caliber machine guns in it andthe it was only uh you the uh World WarII had only ended less than two years before so you had all these veteranCrews um for these night Fighters and they were stay in the southwest and according to PhilipCoro the When the UFO govern when the uh UFOs started having this you know theFlying Saucer Original Flying Saucer surge uh the air force uh you know itwasn't the Air Force in those Army Air Corp concentrated all of its security around Roswell do you know what wasstored at Roswell no all the nuclear weapons onEarth were stored at Roswell along with the bombers to carrythem yeah and so the government was protect this was the first incident ofthe UFOs zooming in on our nuclear weapons stock pile and the US Governmentafter Pearl Harbor the Battle of Bulge World War II the deathcamps it was it was not going toh tolerate any anything that looked likelike a threat so they they had uh at night uh these night Fighters andapparently they they uhambushed two UFOs two saucers over Roswell trying to spy on our nuclearweapons and shot him down one of them crashed near Roswell you know let me I'm gonna play Devil's advoc because I'mUFOs Nukesskeptical and I grow more and more skeptical of the connection between UFOs and nuclear nuclear weapons as time goeson and I'll explain why I've actually was all in on this idea before and uh Robert uh Salah you know he's I thinkone of the nuclear technicians that says he watches stuff get disabled by the UFOs wouldn't nukes just be like littlechild's toys compared to a species that has a craft that can uh where's my phonejust float like this freely because according to mainstream physics there'sno fuel source that could fit with this UFO to make this be able to fly off toother solar systems it would there just no amount of mass could fit within what we see on the in the UFO and it wouldjust make it heavier it would just make it harder so that means they must have an energy source that's far beyondnuclear atomic bombs so why the hell sorry for my Parton my French why would the aliens give a crap about someprimitive Apes figuring out how nukes work oh there's a lot of things Ashtonabout the whole whole UFO experience that don't make a lot of sense Until yourealize that part of this is adisplay it's it's a scop operation oh here here's now you got me on board Iabsolutely believe that there are alien species out there that were not alone inthe universe we found that out on bars you know I mean the universe is huge soyou know you don't have to convince me of that there's probably aliens out there somewhere if we can teleport thenaliens can get to us really easily as well and they could also be there's there's What's called the Einstein RosenBridge yeah equals yeah and so yeah we you can findquestion is why would they care about nukes then if they've got this super advanced technology why do they care about nukes just give me like the topone or two reasons oh uh oh because nukes use the same powersource that powers supernovas and uh okay they know that if their ship getshit with a tactical nuke it will be destroyed and it doesn't matter how manyor just from the destructive power oh just from the destructive power uh ashonyou got to remember uh a lot of uh this is uh youknow here's a uh you know great white Hunter arriving in New Guinea and uhhe's standing there in his khakis uh with his rifle and he says I have amagic bangstick and uh the natives then pepperhim with arrows because he doesn't have any body armor and he's dead thunk thunk thunk somuch for white man's magic and and but you want to create the preachthat you're bulletproof and you'll notice in a lot of science fiction movies one of the first things thathappened is somebody will shoot an alien and the alien will fall overdead it's great scene Earth versus the flying saucers once they got outsidetheir air their force field they could be shot just likeanything else and uh uh and and thisagrees with reports from uh even abductees that sometimes uh abducteeshave actually realized they're coming and sit there with a gun and the aliens see that and decide not to not to hangaround and but you want to keep up the pretense that oh none of your weaponscan hurt me fact there's a great there's a scene in a science fiction movie where a womanis holding a gun on this guy who's an alien and she he sayscan't hurt me and she pulls the trigger and he falls over dead yeah everybody that's the thing Ilike is that you know it's they're not Invincible a UFO is not Invincible alien body isn't be Invincible we all we allhave to succumb to the physics of this universe we live in but so let me go down to another question so you saidnumber one sorry yes yes I no it's fine but I this I want to dig into thesetopics which is okay work the same way want go the energy source the energysource is potentially the same way as as a nle work let me just ask you this what what is the energy source for a UFO whatin your opinion what what do you think the energy source in my opinion uh some of it is a lot of it is beamed frommother ships so you have okay um and and and by the way ifyou if you're Defying Gravity you're making uh the massthe effective mass of the UFO becomes zero and interestingly enough so onceyou get over a threshold you need very little energy to keep it hovering orflying uh that's why they can you know do these sharp right turns as they'rethey're basically being treated as if they have no inertia and um inertia by the way is thehandshake that objects make with the rest of the mass of the universe to youknow show that they have a mass and so in my opinion uh a lot of the smallerships are just beamed U they just have a a nice tight microwave Beam on them togive them just enough power to run everything but they don't need much power when they're when they're in thisweightless State um if you if you're kind of in a state of local zero gravitythen you don't need any energy to preserve that you all you need to do ismake sure that that fields that do that are controlled uh the larger ships Ibelieve run on Fusion Energy just like the stars and once we figure out how to makeuh Fusion Energy you know we're we're doing that now uh I've worked on thatalmost all my career on and off to work on Fusion Energy it'sincredibly you you can make Fusion Energy that technically releases noradiation uh so you could actually sit beside the thermonuclear reactor on yourship and it would generate megawatts of power and enough to power just aboutanything you want so oh well people talk about Z PointEnergy and you think okay uh like pressure like uh you know acan of uh air at very high pressure you can get energy from that you you open the valve and blow the air through aturbine that gives you pre but that's a pressure difference if you're a fishdown in the bottom of an AR on his trench you're surrounded by pressure but you can't feel it because the pressureinside your body is the same as the pressure outside equilibrium so0energy people it does have very high energy I mean quantum mechanics predictsthat the Universe has all of this energy in it every U every cubic uhcentimeter but here's an example of how to release Zer Point Energy make yourself a smallblack hole and stuff intoit the black hole will swallow most of what you feed into it the rest of it will vaporize and turn into a plasma andif you put up what's called an mhg generator to get the energy out of the plasma flow out then you can generatepower from this black hole by just feeding it aspirins every and so but the thing is is that ifyou lose control of that process then the black swallowseverything entire planet so I'm just saying unless you know what you're doingon this I well that's that's a way to do itaccording to sakarov Andre sakarov oh he's one of my FV Russianphysicist that's what he thinks okay well then now I definitely think that's the answer so it that's just as simpleas I mean and when you think of stuff it can just be energy CU eal mc² it's a masses energy so if we're just shootinglike atosc laser pulses continuously onto a point then theoretically we canproduce a tiny black hole and sustain it by just keep zapping it more and more and more and more as long as we havelike perfect Precision on our on our and we basically created a a particlecollider then at that point right I mean that's what that is just laser so now there was a paper that Iread on this front that said that it tried to argue I think it was a littletoo optimistic that the Hawking radiation or black body radiation wouldprevent the black hole from ever stabilizing that it would radiate away before that occurred any hot takes oropinions on that if you start let me let me say real quick toobefore I before you answer is that Salvatore pise adamantly disagreed in private conversations with me and saidthat for sure we can produce a black hole so what do youthink well Salvador Palace and I have uh we even published a joint article wherehe he made a great discovery mathematically uh from general relativity called the SuperForce and um we you know I helped him get that uhpublished in you know just a scientific journal and so we get we get along just fI um yes you could make a tiny black hole like with anAdo laser beam and and and then but according toHawking Hawkings theory if you make this tiny black hole it disappears almostinstantly and you just basically get the energy you're basically just taking perfectly good laser energy and turningit into black body radiation coming out there's no it's notclear that you can uh get any gain from that I I tend toview Zero Point Energy as something that if it was easyto do um it would be like a black hole thatcould then uh get out of control and swallow everything you were trying to powerspecifically like your entire planet so it I I'm not a big believer in ZeroPoint Energy that will be able to harness but like I said the the fewtimes I've been wrong in my physics careers when I said something is impossible so uh May let's explore thatFree Energya little bit more so do you think free energy is possible is real or are you more of the there's no way to get moreenergy out than in I I pretty much I don't think I don'tthink there's cos the cosmos provides you with a free lunch except for theentire Cosmos itself I was gonna say except for the entire the time that happened where everything except for the entirelunch that's my favorite counter is when people say there's no such thing as energy from from nothing and I go exceptfor that time when the Big Bang happened and all energy appeared from nowhere except that see that time was allow neverbut you know you're you're a podcaster that's great uh you know but you could talk about these things and you're rightyou're right uh you know uh the Big Bang was an all you can eat buffet for lunchuh and uh so it's but uh Fusion Energy especiallyburning like uh dyum and helium 3 that has the potential to be you wouldn't beable to tell the difference between that and a free energy machine if it it was just a black box and and you you put ina tiny amount of helium and a tiny amount of heavy hydrogen you get allthis energy out uh I mean it would be easy in fact it would be easy for analien to claim behold my Black Box human it produces free energy from the vacuumand and then you say well what what do you feeding into there oh helium it helps it helps it helps the reaction goyou know it work by the way you got to realize youcan't if the universe is full of snake oil salesman and not all of them arefrom Earth you've got to realize this is a cosmopolitical almost Cold War situationwe have going with some of these species especially the short gray guys and youcan't believe anything they tell you nothing okay well before we get to thealiens I got a few more hard physics questions on that front so yes yesplasma so and this is the something I've struggled with which is that are peoplethat are in the hot Fusion Community really saying that we're just getting you know if you do the chemistry we turntwo do heavy High hen dyum atoms into a helium and we get a little bit of excessenergy um oh well you don't it's it's is thatcorrect uh but but in terms of since E equals MC squ C is sobig the the amount of energy released isenormous so the fuel then heavy hydrogen uh is relatively abundant right onplanet Earth so that would be like we can get it from anywhere can we get it from the air yep yeah that seems prettyB there's kind of like a lot of air on this planet so you could just have your device have you seen this ng8 companyCold Fusionthat is literally producing cold fusion plasma that they claim just runsstraight off the air just like that uh no I'mby the way myself and were teller a mentor at our school that Iwent to at Livermore he would come around and talk to us and uh give uslectures and stuff I talked to him several times uh it was a great honor to me todo that and he umbasically encouraged us to always think practically about everythingum and his reaction to Cold Fusion waswell wow there's probably it turns out the volcanoes onthe bottom of the ocean in the Mid-Atlantic Ridge put out all of thisheavy helium it's called helium 3 or no actually light helium helium 3 insteadof helium 4 and helium 3 is the product of Fusion reactions so he said nature is alreadydoing cold fusion there's no explanation for all this helium 3 coming out of these volcanoes under and but at thesame time my own experience has been thatyes you can apparently get some energy out of cold fusion but very little it'slike uh a radium watch dial puts out light okay maybe you could clamp solarcells on a radium watch dial and say oh I'm getting uh infinite energy fromradium well it's not very much energy it's not enough energy to run the watchas it turns out you know you have to uh but people have invented now nuclearbatteries that run for thousands of years without needing to be rechargedbut they don't put out much power nature yeah I yeah go ahead yeahnature likes big releases of energy[Music] like uh Mass it invest in a star inorder to get like the to make the sun work my my son who's kind of a wiseacrebut it's also very smart said Dad if you want to have harness fusion power just put up a solaryeah I I don't believe hotus Nature Naturehas well you you may very well be right and somebody in hisgarage a uh harness figure out a way to harness cold fusion but my own impression afterexamining that field for many many years is the main problem with Fusion is isthat it's cold and okay because it's cold it's notproducing it's not giving you much it's more like a radium watch dial than thanuh uh than something like a fusion reactor like the sun um why doeselectricity but I don't electricity you know like that's I lookat that problem is that's a benefit like we can do cold fusion that'll produce heatthere's no question that we can harness nuclear energy to get uh electric powerI mean I used to live in Wisconsin and uh you know we had fournuclear power we had four nuclear power stations powering the uh State duringthe winterly uh uh I I had a guy who was a II I was teaching at a college State College and teaching physics in a omyand one guy on staff he was a big advocate for wind power and solar powerand in the middle of winter I would drive to into work and I'd see him I'dsay Josh there's no wind there's no sun why are the lights on in this buildingand the answer was nuclear power yeah and so we've already but but you know ofcourse that uh Vision power has its own of problems uh Chernobyl Fukushima ThreeMile Island everything has RIS when so I don't find it very efficientthough to just boil some water and spin a turbine that doesn't seem like a very intelligent way to produce energy to meand you might be right maybe right now we don't have very powerful Zero Point Energy Taps but oh I I I mean it's justan engineering problem to me I mean you say oh we can produce some energy but we can only produce a little bit of Mount and I say okay well let's try somethingelse and I would say hm maybe plasma for example and this leads me my nextquestion that I want to ask you about which is are you familiar with Ken shoulders are you familiar with Hal POFand do you know about their EV hold on let me finish real quick do you know about their evv condensedcharge research that the Pentagon like highly prioritized in the early 90s sobecause they like they answer all your the questions that you said there about the zeroo energy the plasma everythingwe've been saying to me is well look at Ken shoulder's Evo work because he's basically saying here's the answers toall the problems that you just described Ken shoulders was just amarvelous guy I had a very pleasant lunch and then at I spent several hourssitting in my office and he was chatting with me in Washington DC and we got along famously he showed me all hisexperimental work and oh it was just great uh it's so sadthat he's not around now now uh uh he in the things that he told me he was nottalking about it as a an energy source but you know I'm sure that his thoughts evolvedon it he may figured out a way the the phenomenon that he found his EVS uhelectron vorum the strong electrons I believe that that he was really on tosomething uh and the fact that it didn't get pursued means thatprobably it's part of a classified program some place uh you know uh all of us uh my ownexperience is is stumbled on how to make gravity modification in the lab I mean it wasvery tiny amounts part was uh when I would talk aboutpublishing it the people who had paid me to do the work who my later discovered work for the theagencies said uh we we think that that would be a bad ideaJohn uh you know we paid you good money to do this research own it and we don'twant it out there basically was the what they toldme uh you know was and it was it was not even direct it was more like John you'llbe on really Shaky Ground if you try to get this stuff published and if you want any more moneyfrom us you won't do that and so so basically I discovered that thegovernment could do gravity modification based on this gem theory that I had worked on um and what thatmeant though was that there was a enormous classified program going on onabout this and that uh they basically wanted to see what Icould do based on this fairly rudimentary Theory I developed ofunifying gravity and enm they wanted to see what I could do with it andum to see if they had to uh you know give me a bus ticket tosite 51 um and what they did is they kind ofsatisi satisfied themselves that I didn't have you know I couldn't make anything fly around the rule I wouldjust make things get lighter on a on a chemical scale and uh and so what theydid is they basically just said good work John don't don't talk about this toanybody and maybe it will give you some more money more money was not forthcoming finally I got a$200,000 Grant from DARPA to develop my theory of gravityenm unification which leads to control gravity and uh one of the stipulationswhen I got the money from uh DARPA was we don't want you doing any experimentsthis is purely theoretical do you understand and I said yes sir pleasesign my check so let me talk people um so you're familiar withKen shoulders work you said but what about how P off yes this is the name that comes upover oh how put off is a scholar and a gentleman uh and he has a very similarTheory to mine yeah ofing gravity and enm that he haspublished he and I get the same results for how to produce gravity modificationand I I just published an article where I basically showed that you can get thesame uh you know in know the equation that gives you flight for airplanes you know the wing the basic design of thewing for an airplane it's called the bruli equation you can actually derivewhat what is and it works in the vacuum it workson the moon because it's uh change in gravity uh withelectromagnetism and I showed that I can get that equation for my theory and thenif I go to Hal put off's Theory I can get the same equation using hisequations so we have slightly different models uh his uh both of our models canbe summarized in that if you have two bright objects in a darkbox they put out a black body radiation field and they push against each otherbecause of radiation pressure so they'll push each other apart in thisdark objects in a dark box push each other apart because of mutual radiation pressure if you put two dark objects ina Bright Box you heat the box so it's white hot they actually attract oneanother because of mutual shadowing and goes as one over R square just likegravity and that is kind of a way to summarize the theory of both myself andHal POF Hal pof's original work was based on Andresakarov uh you must understand that a hydrogen bomb runs on radiationpressure you set off an atomic bomb inside a watermelon shaped casing uh atone end of the ca one end of the watermelon is an atomic bomb and youfocus all of the energy coming out of that onto the other end where they have a ball of hydrogenIsotopes and that's what gives you a and so Andre sakarov was working onthat basic design of hydrogen bomb which is the same as the teller design and umhe basically realized oh you could get a theory of gravity out of this so hepublished a very brief article about how Quantum the quantum zero pointenergy produces a radiation pressure that pushes objects together and the theory and howP off uh took that theory and expanded on it and U uh but I give uh H Hal and Iget along just great uh he's a great guy we basically get the same answers okayDuality of GravityDr brandenberg you know I'm a huge fan of your gem unification Theory I love your analogy of the black box and thelight inside the black box or the light box with the black inside of it the reason why I love it is that it showsthis duality of gravity where you can have this attractive force or repulsive force and I think that's one of the bigthings that we get wrong on gravity is that we assume it only has one force effect but potentially it could have anopposite one and I love that your theory also explains you can actually calculateBig G which as you were mentioning before I just had to edit this you were saying that this really impressed a lotof the people that you know this Theory shows that we have big G now are you familiar with some other people thathave come up with similar theories like uh fried wart winterberg has this theoryof plank ether hypothesis which is also very similar to yours and how PUD offthere's another guy Larry Reid who is the I think a former locked uh Martin engineer that he has his big book onQuantum wave mechanics and it also has similar similar theories right were you familiar with any of them I'm I'm notfamiliar familiar with Reed's uh work but Fredick winterberg and I uh go wayback unfortunately he's not with us anymore yeah um yeah he I met him firstwhen I was working at Livermore really he was a friend he was a friend of my the one of my thesisadvisors and uh yeah and then I would run into it periodically over the years and uh his reaction to my big Gwas skepticism oh yeah he says if you're right I will carry your bags toStockholm you know when you get your Nobel Prize I like the sound of that butuh he he was a he was a very C kind of a grumpy character when I knew him and uhyou know and uh uh I I I'll give you one quick storyabout him he independently figured out how the hydrogen bomb worked and startedpublishing that and was amazed when the US governmentshowed up and confiscated all his papers and he didn't like that he was verygrumpy about that and he he would show up at scientific meetings uh wearing acarrying a big billboard saying the government has confiscated my papers and saying I can't talk talk about this orthat and I remember the comment of my thesis advisor to him a very brilliantFreed Waltherfellow named Harry seline's not with us anymore but he said freed wart he always called him freed wart hesaid we already know how to build a hydrogen bomb tell us something tell us how to doyou know harness Fusion Energy so you know we could power our cars you knowthe hydrogen bomb problem that's already been solved and and uh but so winterbergwas a was a very independent uh rugged individualist U he apparently worked foras a graduate student for Warner Heisenberg who was in charge of the uh the Nazi Heisenberg uncertaintyprincipal kind of like a big deal oh yeah the uncertainty principle and uhthat was his mentor that was winberg's mentor and it turns out he's been working on all this secret stuff and wasplasma researcher like you as well and turns out you knew him oh I just showeda picture of his book his book's got an atomic bomb exploding on it on the front of his book it's literally called 1981the principles physical principles of thermo nuclear explosive devices I meanI can see why the government might like have you know put them under lock and key so they it was it was a very awkwardsituation finally the government uh decided to just declassifya lot of the stuff that he was talking about I thought they didn't when did that happen because what I had heardthat happened about in uh 1980 about the end of1981 finally so he he kind of won he kind of won that but other people werefiguring it out too just from open literature yeah and uh but uh yeah so heyeah but that that was the thing freed we already know how to build a hydrogen bom tell us how to build somethinguseful you know give us the free energy devices um free energy devices yeah what do you think about Eric Davis it's thelast guy I want to ask you about Eric right hand man pal off Eric Davis is a brilliant guyuh and um he worked with Hal put off which you know for years which is uhanybody worked with how put off um is is a good guy I I haven't uh I haven'tspoken to Eric Davis uh in years we had a few briefconversations and conferences uh what about his papers like specifically he's got one about extracting energy from theBall Lightningvacuum one of the methods is using an electrostatic what do they call inertialelectrostatic confinement process he's got a paper about ball lightning whichis basically how to stabilize a ball of plasma and then he's also got a paper onwormholes traversable wormholes uh Stargates and darkenergy now go these are all very very interesting good things uh I myself wastasked by the Air Force to make ball lightning only we were forbidden to call it ball lightning we were given threequers of a million dollars in a three-year program to make ball lightning uh we managed to make it inmicrowave ovens and uh and it would just run for minutes you could just make this ball offire uh appear and uh sit there for minutes in the microwave oven uh wefinally made it as big as soccer balls in a u in an industrial mic how did youmake it bigger well we went to a regular a regular microwave oven uses shortwavelength uh uh and so they have industrialmicrowaves that uses a lower frequency so the wavelengths are bigger so you can cook larger things uhlike a ton of bacon you can cook a ton of bacon at once using industrialmicrowaves so we went up to the facility uh where they had a big industrialmicrowave setup and made ball lightning there we made it as big as soccer ballswhat wait what did you call did you call it ball lightning or did you call it something else we we called it P leadingpersistent ionization in air you'll notice if you watch a lightning strikesomeplace you'll have a lightning strike and then there'll be like half a secondwill go by and then a lightning strike will follow exactly the same path because the air is ionized air has beenionized and it stays ionized and by the way thatthat violates all present theories of how the atmosphere works so there'ssomething mysterious we when we first produced our ball lightning we went to a conference sponsored by the Air Forceand the people ahead of us were from some University they had several professorsand their teams of graduate students and they said that what we were attempting to do was impossible and then we rolledin a microwave oven and did it right in front of them and you know what they didn't comeup to me and shake my hand afterwards no they sat in the back of the room andlooked very grumpy like what I'd done was a cheap some cheap Carnival trick but we made goyeah we made this ball lightning as big as soccer balls that we got welder sunburn from it so if you see balllightning in your backyard stay away from it it's probably charged to a million volts do you think you couldturn it into a drone that could be remote controlled well let me put it this way if you aregenerating anti-gravity Drive according to the theory that myself and how putoff has a very similar Theory then you're generating powerful electromagnetic fields around an objectand that will turn the air into a plasma State like cell Elmo fire so you from adistance it'll just look like a plasma orb you would't even be able to see what's causing it I guess my question isis there something can you put something inside of it that can do that or does it have to be projected out to it like themic you could you could put something inside of it uh something that'snullifying local gravity uses such powerful electromagnetic fields itactually breaks down the air uh to make it Glow and it make makes it weak Plasmain the air and in fact if you don't if you're not careful if you make the plasma to and tense the whole effectwill just shut off and your thing will crash yeah that's why you need to stabilize it right you have to stabilizeit um so it's a uh um and uh by theway uh according to my theory you can tell UFOs are coming from miles andmiles away before you can even see them because they put out electromagnetic signature and um my own belief is thegovernment already knows how to pick they can tell a they can tell a regularhobbyist uh you know uh it's absurd to think that people are Ming Balloons withwith UFOs using electromagnetic and like you know endothermic drives is what I'mgoing to call it they're not the reason why we're filming an infrared and thermal and stuff like that is partiallybecause it's just better sensors but also because they're able to pick this stuff up like instantaneously comparedto Optical Spectrum right yeah um let me ask also if you have the right uh if youare looking for the right frequencies of electromagnetism uh and this has been known in the UFO Community for a longtime uh they they say that one frequency that the UFOs like to use is 30 it'shalf of wall current instead of 60 Herz is 30 htz and there reasons for thatthat I won't go into uh um maybe but it's a well I mean it's it's it's youdon't want to turn your UFO into a radio station uh because uh the shorter thewavelength the more uh the more radio frequency youEmit and uh finally uh all your power just goes into making uh enm radiationradio waves and you don't want that you want the radio you want the electromagnetic field to hang aroundyour ship so you can fly so my own belief is the government canpick up um the U they can tell the difference between Joe butt's uh hobbyuh uh drone that he's just flying around uh just because uh he likes to do thatand and a real uh UFO uh by the way I will uh I I don't know ifyou want this opinion right now but the whole draw this whole so-called dronething at its core I believe is a UFO surge of a surge of ET UFO sightings thegovernment is then desperately running around with its own drones and its own helicopters withlight bright lights on them at night all you can see just is a brightlight and so the government is trying to blow as much smoke as possible and they've always done thiswhenever there's big surge of UFO sightings they call it swamp gas they call it sightings of Venus they call itweather balloons uh when the UFOs were flying over Washington DC and jetfighters were chasing them they said these are just temperature inversions you know uh you know in the air and sothe drones are a very convenient thing where the government to um yeah use as a lame a lame excuseI mean if these were real drones they wouldn't be able to shut down right Patterson Air Force Base and Langley AirForce Base yeah they're um they're using as neural linguistic programming youknow it's just a diversion call a UFO a drone this is why I was asking you the earlier questionabout do you think these balls of plasma can be drones and what I would recommend humbly you're the expert is check outKen shoulders scientific paper called primitivity transitions because at a essentially argues that after herealized that space was not empty there really is this ether of energy the Zero Point Energy yes he realized that if youmake this ball of plasma that it actually has anti-gravity propertiesjust naturally because what's happening is the Plasma's changing the permitivity of that region of space changing thespeed of light and so it turned out that you could just if you think of likebiological extension you could use this plasma on say a Hypersonic spy plane toallow it to cut through the air quicker you could use it on a UFO so you could have a craft inside you know and yourPlasma's covering your UFO or why have anybody in there at all why have it be atransportation device at all just turn it into a drone just put a small device just a drone and now youve got a drone thatlooks like a ball of plasma like a star that it can just float aroundand and and how POF he has like one major patent that's been approved five different times it's just calledcommunication system like and this is one of the spookiest names ever because you read it and it's like oh it's aQuantum communication system that doesn't use electric and magnetic fields it just uses potentials scalerpotentials I'm just looking at it and I'm going he's got a he's got a gravitycommunication device that can control a plasma drone because it says right in there it goes through plasma I'm like ohwell there's your communication method anyway thoughts on that oh oh uh wellthe the scaler uh the scaler waves phenomenon was first talked aboutby Tesla who who if anybody would know about such stuff it would be Tesla so uhunfortunately he didn't leave a lot of well in the notes that we know about andof course when he died the FBI it was in the middle of World War II theFBI went to his apartment confiscated everything in fact it was Trump'sUncle president Trump's Uncle yeah John Trump the let led the uh uh you know thethe team of FBI agents they just took everything but the bare walls I think they even took the wallpaper that hemight have scribbled on but anyway he believed in SCA the scaler uh potentialuh electromagnetic fields of you know are vectors they have you know but likea pressure this is like a sound wave a sound wave is what's called a scalar wave it's a pressure it doesn't have anydirection to it it just has a number and Tesla talked about this is it turns outthe gem Theory I work on and also which was used by U Einstein is based on cluthe Coline Theory five-dimensional Theory and when you do thefive-dimensional theory to unify it unifies the mathematics of gravity andelectromagnetism so it does that and what also falls out is this scalarfield that so let me jump in here because Tom Bearden also references allthe same physicists Kua Klein sakarov everybody you've been talking about and he explainuh scaler physics a lot of people don't understand it and so I think this demonstration will help because this isactually something Tom mon talk he's also a physicist and engineer if you haven't talked to him you should hetalks about this and it's a very simple thought is that right now if you were to take two waves like electromagneticwaves with the right hand rule blah blah blah yeah and you have them out of phase of one another like this or it can be atriangle formation any zero point system so they cancel each other out so whatever their amplitudes of their waves are cancel each other out conventionalphysics would say okay that means I'm pulling on both sides of this rubber band equally okay so it's not gonna moveleft or right right now I can pull twice as hard same thing it's not moving left or right I can pull five times as hardeventually this rubber band is gonna snap right that stress in the medium isthe scaler potential that's the gravity that's the effect that we feel from allthe energy around us all the time what do you think I like I like your analogy I uh with your permission I will beusing it go ahead I'm paying it forward you know I'm paying the analogy forward because it's important it's a simple wayto think about it where you would never say that there's nothing here like you would say that the more I'm pulling thisyou're creating this stress and you can hear it by you know interacting with it to me that's what SpaceTime is and allthe energy on top of SpaceTime is is that there's different stresses and this is what I think Einstein showed ingeneral relativity different amounts of stresses in different regions and this ball of Earth that we're sitting oncauses a very large stress that we feel is gravity all around us right yes soyou know what let's let's let's talk some smack about some people you know if you want to sound off on the academicyou know maybe I'll sound off first and then you can sound off let me let me sound off on the Academia tell you yousound off on the Academia Community first and then I'll respond and then all sound off on the UFO community and youcan respond I you know I went to a string Theory it was primarily StringTheory conference because that's where uh theoretical physics has been concentrating I fortunately brought myuh my nice girlfriend she wanted to go to the conference with me and uh i' I'vebeen married twice uh and divorced twice so she anyway so she's standing there beside me thisguy looks like he wants to slug me after I showed him my my G the thederivation for Big G because they can't do it and it's and he accused me of amathematical slight of hand that I'd hidden G in one side of the equation made it appear in the other side and Isaid here's the derivation here's my equation it's threelines where's Big G on this other side of the equation that I make up magically appear and and it was just like a fightin my old high school where I grew up if you want to know where there's a fight just look for acrowd of people around it and a bunch of people had crowded around to watch thisand you know he just was just furious with me what do you think makes you so mad what do you think that what do youthink that comes from like I know you're not a psychology expert the string theory realreal academic science uh at especially in the big leagues is it's you know it's likeprofessional basketball it's not supposed to be a contact sport but it isuh in a tight game championship game with a tight score under the net thefinal minutes the knees and the elbows start to fly I mean uh it gets reallypersonal uh do you think that money has to do with it or is it more it's a fight over it's a fight overmoney uh and um prestige power I meanhow can I get to be a department head if I can't find Big G and this guybrandonburg has done it you know and his number is part good within a part per10,000 you know um and this other graveyard came up to my uh paper and I Ihad the equations all up on a big screen and he says he's looking at everythingvery carefully and I said sir I can help you walk I can walk you through this Theory you know in my derivation for BigG and I also get the mass of the proton you know which is mass of hydrogen andhe just looks at me he just glares at me and says no I can read it for myself sothese people uh won't give me zip credit because it will IND theyview um science as a zero sum game if somebody else's the Theory uh other youknow if somebody else's Theory gets any kind of credit or publication in a nice Journal then this this diminishes me howcan I become head of the Department of physics at Harvard if this idiotbrandenberg is running around talking about Big G and so they go ahead yeah sothe government has determined the the way that science will go in this countryby funding string theory for like 30 years they're they're gaslighting theentire academic community in my opinion String Theory obviously doesn't work itdoesn't produce anything that can be tested in like at CERN and the and andbasically the government says well if it doesn't have strings in it we're not going to fund it and what they're doingis they've they've taken people like me and Hal put offand uh some other people have taken the two long range forces of nature electromagnetism and gravity and unifiedthem mathematically which is B you know started by cloa Klein Theory yeah andthey don't want us working on that in fact even Einstein who worked on theunified field Theory said he says I've gotten the impression the government is not happy with my work on unified fieldTheory and wishes I would not talk about it anymore and it's because there's beena classified anti-gravity program what you're really talking aboutis a theory of anti-gravity yeah for Gravity modification and so why can't Academiafigure it out I mean so I guess you get it is like is it really just as simple as the money is coming from the government to fund it and they only fundthe research that they want they only fund the research they want you would still think though that and I agree withyou by the way that absolutely they don't want anyone looking at unified theories they don't want anybody lookingdown any path that will lead them to the physics which is the ether is real thereis an a field of energy that's out there there's an extra Dimension like CLA Klein said um and because the moment youfigure any of this out everything unravels you realize like oh we can easily do Fusion oh we can produce wehave these energy sources they're exotic energy sources we can produce anti-gravity we might be messing aroundwith time as well so you know you can see why they would do it but the part I don'thow are more physicists not figuring it out from my perspective I'm a guy withno PhD I've been researching this for the last year year and a half and Irealized there's I I mean I feel like not only is there something here not only is this UFO phenomenon real but thephysics it's not even like there's all these options it's like the what you know what you said with gem Theory howPUD off Theory they're all sakarov they're all based on this idea of this energy field all around us yesthe same concept and I that's the answer there it is these guys have all been saying it you know brandenberg here howoff like these guys might have seen UFOs and secret projects for all we know I'm not saying you did but you know I thinkdefinitely has um and so it's like why are other people not figuring this outwhat do you think the reason is why is it just like this guy Ashton and my crew ofMisfits well I'm I'm part of a re band up in the hills basically uh along with Hal put off andsome other PE workers who figured you know figured out the riddle uh in my opinion it's as simple as okaybrandonburg you have this Theory with this uh bruli vacuum bruli equation whatdoes an aircraft what does a craft look like that uses it well yeah it's asaucer with three bumps on the bottom and and and once you see thatpicture you just say oh this can't be right and we're not going to fund thisand um in fact even the word the term anti-gravity marks you in the academicCommunity is somebody who can't get funding from the government you call itgravity modification and uh and but you but all of that is apparently justcompletely been subsumed by this String Theory business and they'vewasted $30 billion and and you could say this iswhat's called the winterberg effect winterberg stumbled on how to build the hydrogen bomb just from the openliterature he was close enough that the government decided to confiscate all hispapers scolded him it didn't do any good uh finallythey just ended up declassifying basically his all its ideas and U uh sobut this is the winterberg effect applied to uh gravity enm gravity uhmodification uh so like suppression and it's depression stigma adding stigma tocertain topics like you see this a lot and this is why I use certain topics like UFOs cold fusion anti-gravityalthough I actually use gravity modification just because I think it's more accurate but yeah it is it is theystigmatize these topics and then nobody will touch them Academia won't touchthem now I want to take it a step further because I want to talk about aliens in the UFO Community is that Iand I'm gonna I'm gonna be a little adversarial here actually but first I want to say that when I started researching the UFO side of this I wasdisgusted by the community I did not expect what I found is I found thiscommunity that's hyper political that like admonishesconspiracy theorists while also claiming that there's this major conspiracy bythe government to cover up aliens and I also found that people are very obsessedwith the idea of aliens in general that everybody's got their belief system about what the aliens are where theycome from or what have you perfectly honest cards on the table I don't care about any of that I don'tcare where they come from or what they are they actually don't surprise me if they exist because like you said I think the universe is a big place there'saliens out there I have no doubt and whether or not they're visiting us unless they're impacting my life I don'tI don't really care but what I found with the UFO commit was much like whatyou reference with Academia is they treat it like a zero sum game like if I'm coming in I'm taking away attentionone of the things I heard a lot was that I'm hurting the UFO Community when I come in I'm researching a literalmissing I'm going how am I hurting the UFO Community it's not like this community has a huge amount of credibility heretalking about the blue telepathic aliens that nobody's ever videoed like I'm talking about a real missing plane andtechnology so here's the thing that I really want to ask you about is that myopinion after a year and a half is that a lot of these disclosure Advocates like the Lou Al zandos of the world that areout there and anyone that's in his crew you'll see them always doing stuff together like Jeremy Corb the Georgenaps they are essentially in my opinion on the government payroll and they're saying that here we'll give you aliensaliens in this hand are real and that's not that mind-blowing to anybody in myopinion no you're not really revealing anything about it and then they say well I'm hiding something behind my back forNational Security they say I always protect National Security and I go well what what is it that you're hiding backthere behind your back because you're saying that aliens are real and I think what they're hiding back there isbasically the first hour of this podcast which is they we've figured out coldfusion we've figured out free energy or at least a source of energy that's so unlimited that we would consider it tobe free energy and that that's a national security issue because hydrogenbombs you know Zero Point Energy bombs whatever the next we're going to call the next Evolution that's a nationalsecurity issue and so my opinion the whole UFO thing is that you've got people out there that are grifting offof it trying to sell people this hope for the aliens are going to come save us and you know fix all the problems in theworld you've got these other people that are just lying by a mission that are like yeah aliens are real but can't I'mnot going to say anything more beyond that and then you got a few people like the step Greers of the world and uhpeople like dark journalists who say like we've got this crazy technology out there maybe it came from Aliens or itdid come from Aliens but that the the all about the military protecting it sodo you think that my assessment is fair and which where do you align on this CHI I I I tend to agree with just about everything you have said I mean weprobably differ on a few details but um I mean I I met Lou alzando I I thoughthe he's typical of some of the people I worked with in Washington DC were veteran uh peoples from the agencies uhthey'd been down in Latin America uh you know fighting uh communist gorillas and stuff these weretough guys he he struck me as just one of these really tough guys who's come out of the Jungle given a suit that youknow you take off those camos Lou we're gonna give you a business suit and you're gonna go to some conferences forus and uh you know I immediately liked him because of that and uh but it he'she's basically admitted that he's still on the government payroll and he basically sort ofsaidwell I can't talk about that because I haven't been authorized to and I thought well I thought youwere I thought you were a whistleblower whistleblow thought you a whistle blower no it turns out they he's been given awhistle that doesn't blow it blows only one note you know and uh and nodisrespect to him because I agree like I respect our veterans and yes I do anyone if anyone wants to make the choicethey're going to protect National Security over disclosure that's fine that's your choice I'm not I just thinkthat if you're going to try to be the spokesperson for this at the same time do you think it's true that the thingthey're hiding behind the back is the science and the physics and the technology do you think that's what they're hiding or you think it's something else Ioh there's that component but then there's a lot of otherstuff uh like black projects black dark operations or what you what do youthink well if you read uh you know if you read the novel or you can actuallywatch a video synopsis of it on YouTube it's just called Morning Star Passedition three it's like half hour there's even a short one but there'sshorter version but it you'll realize the government has been fighting herehere's my understanding we are involved in a low intensity conflictwith some of the species out there especially the little short gray guys and the government at one pointentered into a secret treaty with them and that's forbidden in theConstitution con treaties are supposed to be ratified by the Senate they're supposed to be negotiated by ambassadorsthat the Senate designates and with the advice and consent of the uhSenate and apparently we no we actually uh uh decided to Short Circuit thatentire process and come up with a kind of under the table agreement with the Grays um and if youfound out the government allowed the Grays to kidnap a bunch of people harvest their sperm and eggs so theycould make hybrids uh and in return for giving us technology during the Cold Waruh you'd say gosh when did the Senate ratify such atreaty and and gosh there's an actual treaty somewhere there's a paper trail for thisyou think or oh yeah well there was uh that all ended apparentlyuh remember the Cold War uh remember Papa you're too young toremember Papa do devalier who ran Haiti forthis guy wrapped himself in Voodoo as a way to terrorize his ownpopulation Not only was he a ruthless dictator but uh but he um he mesmerizedhis people by the idea that he was a personification of the god of death inVoodoo and uh so therefore he could uh make people disappear or torture them todeath uh whatever he wanted and um andhe he was our faithful AI in in Haiti though because he was a staunch anti-communist during the cold duringthe Cold War and so the government has been involved in alot of stuff the UFO coverup has gone on for 80 years and the US government hasnot exactly followed constitutional Norms uh you know in their defense youknow what they would say they would say well desperate times require Desperate Measures you know we were facing theCommunists on Earth we were facing the Grays from outer space uh why why areyou so convinced that it's graze from outer space because I've looked at the list of non-human intelligence optionsand there's like 50 and only like one ofthem I I I agree completely the univ un is just like the Earth the universe is avery complicated Place uh we appear to be in a strategic location inspace um I can give you more details on that but basically we appear to be in astrategic location and were the focus of attention for that reason for a numberof extr interstellar Powers um there's only three basicgroups there's uh you there's three basic groups and that's a gross oversimplification but you know there'sthe little short gray guys they're terrible is is my understanding that allthe animal mutilations and abductions and stuff 90% of them 90% of all of thatis done by them and human mutilations too are those the ones that are like the AI ones with no souls that peopletalking about or is that different well they they act like a bunch of soldier ants uh organic AI yeah it's organicthey used to call it in Marvel Comics Androids Flesh and Blood that's the little gray ones do they have names orthey we just call them little gray guys they just call them little they call them the Grays and apparently they havecopper based instead of uh yeah iron based blood they have copper based bloodso it's blue leading to the idea of Blue Bloods being you know kind ofGodlike and uh but the octopus uses blue blood and so you can support a veryAdvanced nervous system with blue blood however copper based blood is not asefficient as um Iron based blood as it turns out that's why all the major landanimals on Earth in a high oxygen environment uh use red blood things likescorpions and tarantulas and stuff they use blue blood and so the uh Gray's uhattempt to kind of occupy this planet with hybrids failed apparently becausethey couldn't get hybrids that were viable based on a mixture of blue andred blood and one of the places where this idea of blue blood comes in orgreen blood comes in is in the Star Trek by the way Spock was supposedly hadcopper based blood do they need can't they just go some other planet that's good for BlueBlood aliens and also where do they come from oh this is a real nice this is athis is a nice Planet you know you uh I have a cartoon shows a gray standingthere in space by the Earth and he says it's a nice Planet you have there andyou think they just really like this planet like it's like some kind of got a lot of water lot of water a lot ofresources it's a nice nice big planet and not only that it doesn't havedinosaurs running around um eating anything that they see uh it's a verybiofriendly planet for somebody like them especially because they're short and U so we have that group then we haveanother group straight out of Star Trek the equivalent of the Vulcans theyare our cousins apparently and I had conversations in Washington DC withpeople who I knew were absolutely experienced Professionals in the Intelbusiness who told me there are people down on Earth you could walk by them on the street you would never notice themand they're not from this planet they are basic and you can't tell them genetically from human beings infact we're part them and they call them some people callthem nordics other I call them just the plans and U you notice in Star Trek andthey even commented on this that a lot of the beings they encountered in the Uouter space were basically very very humanlike the Vulcans being the primaryexample uh Spock's mother was human and his her his father was Vulcan they theythey got together got married and produced a healthy kid and so yeah sothat's that's another group and they're apparently are friends they're helping us that one surprises me but alsodoesn't at the same time like I would expected aliens would be so different from us but at the same time the onethat would freak me out the most is if they look just like us where they were indis and I think that that's believablebecause I look around at people and I wonder if they're an alien sometimes I I look at them and I go if that person wasan alien I would not be able to to tell like you know no you can't you can'tthere's so much variety to what according to what I was told you can't tell them apart from human beings byblood type or genetics and and uh they said this was of aconcern because they thought they were getting security clearances and becoming involved with the government and theywanted um they they actually asked me because of my Mars because I was of myMars work I was considered kind of an expert on ETS and they said do you have any uh and by by the way the themarivil what's that ET expert John Brandenburg well the the the Martian orthe what I call the sidonian civilization up on Mars they look just like us well hold on I want to before weget that they didn't look like lizards but the thing is okay so so there's people likeus who are apparently our cousins somebody said oh they look like us and Isaid no they look like them because because of shorely back in the back inthe day yeah and there's all these Greek Legends like that now real quick becauseI I want to know if there's any other theories because you're competing with some pretty pretty out there ones I likethe weird ones uh Jason Jani thinks that humans from the future went back to the past andmade Atlantis and that we've got some kind of thing okay okay the other one I've also and and did he did he talkabout when they crash in the desert and the coyotes eat their bodies you know Idon't know I'm just saying oh this is all kind of some somebody was sayingthis is these are holographic simulations or these are humans from the future and I said yeah with with copperbased blood they're from the future and what okay what about maybe they made those aliens I don't know you saidthey're organic AI what about AI what if a hive mind has taken over and the hivemind can literally just like 3D print the UFOs straight out of the e oh thereI'm sure there's certain amount of that they say that okay the real pros amongamong the ETS uh 3D print or UFOs here at Earth for using Earth material so theIsotopes all match so if you getra pieces of crashed UFO you'll just saywell this aluminum just looks like regular aluminum from an aircraft isotopically you can tell stuff where ifstuff is from offworld like meteorites because it has different isotopes thanstuff on Earth ask you about that but before we do that I it's the Mars stuff to that we can finish with that um Imean I have a simple answer it's us like we've figured this out like why why are we dismiss that I'm literally talking toyou John brandenberg right now you knew winterberg you know all these scientists you're you're looking this stuff why isthe answer not just like hey you're just spitting this tale about aliens because you know we've figured this out andyou've worked on these secret projects and like you can't talk about it like why why isn't that thing well there'sthere's very little that I worked on that I can't talk about it yeah but you know people but but and by the way I wasnever read into the UFO program GRS so I can you know Iactually I'm not violating any security I talking about it uh you know like Isaid they they said go ahead and write about what youever you want in this novel uh as long as it's labeled sciencefiction John and so they you know they gave me that U uh I I tend to um I knowthat we can travel to other planets we went to the moon six times I believe that and um we may have gone fartherwith alien technology who knows the idea somebody else could whatwe didn't lose the technology to go to the Moon though right you don't think that right like no we may have been toldnot to go back to the Moon okay but there were also there were geopoliticalreasons uh we have a space treaty called the outer Spa we actually have a treatyouter space treaty called the outer space Treaty of 196 7 which was ratifiedby Congress signed by the Russians signed by the Chinese signed by everyEuropean uh country and it's uh it saybasically says you can't claim like the moon or Mars as national territory Italso says you can't put nuclear weapons in space and uh so it's au uh well so the question though is like do you really think that that we wedon't have I mean the military US military China do you think we've got anti-gravity technology yes I do yes Ido yes I do yeah so by the way why can't it be us why does it have to be alienswhen we're seeing stuff flying around or do you think that there's a mixture oh oh the the because of theaccounts of uh if it was just us I think it would have been Declassified a long timeago but because of the alien aspect that people are generally peoplein the government uh once the toothpaste is out of the tube you cannot put it back in ifif it comes out that the government knows we're being visited by people from outer space who are more advanced than us itkind of quells into question who is the chief rooster in this Ro in this HenHouse you know is it the US government or is it somebody from Outer space youknow they people start asking you know we thought we were the top of the food chain uh apparently no there's otherlinks in the food chain you know there's there's powers above the powers on Earthand no power on Earth likes to bedemoted yeah most of us are at the bottom and we don't care who our ruler is if it's somebody else on anotherplanet now I get you might be saying that you know our government might be ready to battle with the space aliens uhyou know that would actually track with what Salvador P has been saying about human technology and oh yeah well thethe we apparently are involved in a low-level conflict with the Grays andwe've been there for a long time um and we finally it's uh we tried to we triedto make make nice with them uh with a treaty and then we found out they wereviolating the treaty and then this culminated in this uh proposed CL military clash in a place called dce NewMexico and uh based on what I heard in Washington DC that really did happen Iheard several accounts and um the basically the onlydifference between the accounts was the body count some people said oh 60 humansgot killed other people said oh no it's more like a hundred and other people said oh no we only lost five the alienslost lost uh lost 60 it on and on it went and you basically just kind of takethe basic story and um and apparently uh by theway this tracks with Hollywood apparently during the secret treaty uh regime which lasted apparentlyfrom 1968 into about 197978 close and they Hollywood celebrated this by Close Encounters of the ThirdKind which is a Love Fest between ends with a Love Fest between the humans andlittle gray aliens uh okay then you fast okay that comes out in1977 then there's the Clash at Dulce where everything goes to Pieces wasunder Jimmy Carter and what's the next big movie aboutaliens to come out it's the movie Alien which is a about you know we're back toblood sucking aliens uh utter betrayal by the authorities of the humans and youknow and that's that's if you watch Close Encounters of the Third Kind it'sfrom 77 and then alien from 79 you get some idea of what happenedwell I look at it and I just go you know if these aliens exist they really are shy camera shy at least nobody's findingmaking any people shoot at them well not taking videos I'm not seeing any of themonline but you know if they look like us that solves that problem now let meum tothe last topic here which is the the Mars topic because so I'm just going tosummarize my understanding of of your uh book about Mars that because there'scertain isotopes that are found within the atmosphere I believe this shows that there was very like if not certainlynuclear explosions that happened on Mars could explain why there is no magnetic field maybe but really the question letme finish real quick so real quick the story is that there was a civilization on Mars in the past they potentiallydestroyed themselves with nuclear weaponry and perhaps they uh cametransported came over to Earth and now we are them or something like that is that go ahead and fill in the gaps uh Iyou're I agree with the basic idea that there was a dead there's a dead civilization on Mars and it dates from atime when Mars had an earthlike climate I'm the discoverer of the Mars ocean bythe way one of reasons I uh hold Academia in this country in a little bitof uh disregard is uh you know they won't give me credit for discovering theMars ocean even though I uh if you if you look on in we Wikipedia Mars oceanTheory I'm reference number one you know I was the first person to propose it butthey never give me any credit and uh because of my other work on Mars now it looks though as thoughthere was a primitive humanoid civilization on Mars predating thedinosaurs which shows that the basic human formpredates humans on Earth humans are a ua super terrestrial phenomenon but you got to realize we're very practical lookhow many places on Earth humans live we're a very practical rugged bunch andum but is it it appears uh and by the way I've shown thethe evidence I have for the thermonuclear Holocaust on Mars to nuclear experts several of them and theyagree with me but they they can't be quoted on the record so are you saying that they wiped themselves out andthey're gone or are you saying that out in remnants made it to Earth or do you just not know or not care what's youropin uh oh uh the it based on theevidence that I have I'm trying to analyze this as just a scientificproblem um they look like us because human beings are a superterrestrial kind of phenomenon in the Stars just like in Star Trek but these people were fairlyprimitive they did not have nuclear weapons themselves uh they did not have spacetravel Bas basically what we find is what looks like a fairly Bronze Age orstone age you we're talking Old Kingdom Egypt or the Mayans or the toex from Mexi Old Mexico uh kind ofcivilization and then it looks as though someone else camealong and dropped two hydrogen bombs as big as the Empire StateBuilding on Mars utterly destroying the civilizationthere and not only that but destroying the entire biosphere of Mars so it couldnever recover how are we making the inference that they only had a certain level oftechnology and that somebody else did that what's the evidence well there's no there's no evidence of any highways umuh the there's things that look like fortifications but they're built on highground it all looks uh there there's no indication likeairports or you're talking about the topology of the planet of Mars itself you're not right it does not look likean advanced civilization which makes it even more sad that apparently somebody who was veryAdvanced came [Music] along and destroyed them and uh thatmeans that it was somebody who uh it been somebody like the plans who arebasically human they would have probably just conquered it but instead this is somebody who uh was verynon-human supposedly these reptilian aliens that uh you know there's very hardly any storiesabout them but apparently they do exist um and but the either the Grays or TheReptilian uh aliens uh somebody who did not like human beings at all decided to make anexample out of Mars um genas Khan would make if a cityresisted him he would kill everybody in the city and make pyramids of heads uhjust as to terrorize everybody so that the next city he approached he'd knockon the gates and say just open your Gates give us all your stuff otherwise you'll end up like the SI last City youknow as a pyramid of heads will'll kill everybody and so this a weterrorization wouldn't you just take out the whole planet if you have that kind of advanced level technology why are you dropping nukes like again it just feelslike we're taking our level of science understanding we're pretending like like it's the highest level of Technologythat's out there if you're a civilization coming by doing a drive by bombing I I feel like you should easilybe able just wipe Mars out like Mars isn't there anymore we would never have anyTrace Ashton why turn it into a black hole why turn Mars into a black holewhen all you need to do is just destroy everything on the surface you know it's like uh guess youknow what you're what you're talking about is somebody taking the planet Mars and turning it into a blackhole um you know that's that's there's there's a there's like a zero pointenergy weapon would do something like that and uh no no they didn't botherwith that they just uh okay hydrogen bombs are easy to build the Russiansbasically showed by the way you could build hydrogen bombs as uh big as theaircraft carrier Enterprise and um let me ask you this because this is how Ikind of want to this is my final question for you okay which is do youthink we are going to annihilate ourselves do you think we're going to get past the fmy Paradox and the greatfilter uh you think doomed and why do you believethat um well you know we're talkingfundamentally about things we can't know we we can't know what's really going to happen future but I'm religious I'm justan Episcopalian you know uh and um you know Bible prophecybasically says the human race is around uh in the future getting in the samekind of trouble it gets in now you know uh andum uh by the way you know AI is in the Biblethere's a city called AI in the Book of Joshua you should read about it it's actually spelledAi and uh so I'm not worried aboutAI uh destroying us um though I think wewe should be very careful about that uh so I think the human race is going to do fine I think the vision for the humanfuture is Star Trek that's the way we're going to beokay I appreciate that I am not as optimistic as you are I think I look around and I see the destructivecapability that we are able of unleashing and I think that inevitably it's just a matter of time till somebodypresses the wrong button everything's gone just like that but my I prefer to talk to people thatare more optimistic than I am I I'm I'm I'm quite optimistic I think with God'shelp we'll get through this and go ahead and shout out whatever else you want orwhere people can find you I appreciate you talking to me today Dr brandenberg has been a greatconversation Ashton it's been a pleasure and honor to be on your show uh I wrote a book called Cosmic Awakening it'savailable on amazon.com I also wrote the science fiction novel um in 2003 it's calledMorning Star pass the collapse of the UFO cover up and we're going to turn it into a movie ni uh two beautiful womenwho are news anchors bring down the UFO cover up there you go that sounds like abestseller already Blockbuster so I hope it does well let me know and I'll I'll check it out promoe it for you uh Drbrandenberg thank you very much guys this was another episode of hard Tru podcast uh make sure you hit the likehit the Subscribe follow do Dr brandonburg and we'll talk again soon