hello everyone and welcome to another episode of hard truths podcast I'm your host Ashen Forbes today I have a very

special guest Harvard Astro physicist AI lob is with me today and we're going to

talk science and physics now the reason why I'm so excited to talk to ABY lob is that he's not afraid to talk about

topics that other academics won't Broach like aliens and UFOs So today we're

going to talk about some amazing stuff AI thank you very much for being with me today how are you

doing thanks for inviting me it's a great treasure so just let's get started

right away I want to ask you about what I just mentioned is from my perspective on the outside looking at it looks like

academics are afraid to talk about some of these topics that I see you talking about all the time with podcasters like

can we communicate with aliens what would other civilizations look like and how would other civilizations use

science and physics to get here what is it about you that makes you different and and what do you think about your

peers and and if do they judge you for that well it's just a matter of Common Sense

we exist on a rock that was left over from the formation of the Sun and we see

similar rocks earth like planets around the other sunlike stars and in fact

there are hundreds of billions of such systems based on the latest estimates within the Milky Way galaxy alone and

then there are trillion galaxies in the universe so thinking that we are unique and special and Nothing Like Us exists

uh is really very presumptuous very arrogant and as a matter of Common Sense

we should accept the possibility that there are many other kids in our Cosmic neighborhood and they might be smarter

than us what could be more natural than that uh so I'm just applying common

sense and uh to me that is part of reality that we have to learn about we

see our house it looks uh familiar the the solar system the Earth moving around

the Sun and then see other houses planets moving around other stars in our

Cosmic Street and the only question we have to ask is whether the there are any residents in those houses that's not

such a a difficult question to address with modern science with the tools that we have and so all I'm saying is forget

about science fiction about uh the lore that the people

with without any substantiation uh bring up all kinds of

stories that that have no credibility forget about this it's completely unrelated uh there is a fundamental

question whether we are not only away from uh any physical center of the

universe the way people thought before Copernicus but perhaps we are not even at the intellectual center of the

universe and let's learn from others now you may ask why is this common sensical

view not the dominant within the mainstream of the scientific community

and um you know that's one of these anomalies within Academia that um the

culture is for people to show off that they're smarter than others uh not to

take any risks that may ruin their reputation and not to interact with the public in a sincere

fashion usually the approach is to have press conferences in which you tell the

public your results like um a teacher in a class but that's not the way I see it

the public pays money through taxes to support science and the public cares a

lot about this particular question so I think it's completely inappropriate of scientists to ignore this question and

to have committees that are claiming that addressing this question is too risky and in fact may result in wasting

taxpayers money I said the taxpayers want us to study it we should attend to

that but cannot hope to get funded by the standard committees that NASA or the

National Science Foundation assemble because they're are full of those uh traditional thinking and not no

risk-taking scientists uh and I get all of my funding from private donations or

donors so let me ask the Devil's Advocate thing because I think that they would probably say well you can't go

probably even close to the speed of light and the nearest star is four light years away away and from their

perspective they would say also we can't achieve faster and light communication so we're kind of just stuck out in the middle of nowhere and with no hope of

Ever Getting to somebody so how would you respond to that that criticism that they would Levy and would you say that

there might be another solution that we just haven't figured out well that's that's not factually true so the the

thing is that Voyager the spacecraft that we launched will exit the or cloud of the solar system within 10,000 years

and we get to the opp opposite side of the Milky Way galaxy in a billion years

okay now most stars like the sun in the Milky Way galaxy formed billions of

years before the Sun so if you imagine a a copy of what we have here just

translated in time to an earlier time by a few billion years that they could have reached Us by now even their Voyager

like probes that uh move U with the same technology they are repelled by chemical

Rockets uh those would be able to reach us as long as their star was at least a

billion years ahead of ours and that that basically tells you

you don't need to travel because there could be objects that that arrive to our vicinity that spent recent billions of

years to get here so instead of us going to the neighbor's yard we might as well check for any tennis balls that were

thrown by the neighbor NE so you're expecting what van nuran is that what it is Van Numan probes is that the theory

Exploring Interstellar Communication

that you're kind of throwing out there right now is even um even space trash you know if as long as the civilization

you know we are preoccupied if you look at the news we are preoccupied with problems on the surface of this rock and

we invest $2.4 trillion dollar in military budgets uh very often trying to

kill others or avoiding preventing others from killing us and and most of

the time it's about territorial disputes or or power struggles but this is all on

the surface of this rock and in fact there is much more real estate out there

and um in interstellar space so this makes very little sense uh and you could

imagine that a civilization that is sufficiently Advanced that has a perspective about Interstellar space

would actually launch uh equipment or or actually even

beings or um systems with artificial intelligence away from their home planet

so this is really the key it's not so much how long does the civilization last but whether they escaped from that

original habitat that they were born on and if they did you will just you know

even if the equipment that they launched is not functional anymore the way Voyager will not be in a billion years

you know it will lose its functionality it will still be space trap and just like finding Plastics in the

ocean you know keeps accumulating the gravity of the Milky Way galaxy can keep

those objects from escaping because they move at a speed that is 10 times too

small H unlike the speed of light that radio signals propagate so the traditional approach was to wait for a

phone call but nobody may call you at the time that you're listening and indeed over the past 60 years we haven't

detected any clear signal how however if you are searching for objects in your

backyard or uh packages in your mailbox you know those may have arrived a long

time ago the senders may be dead um most of these may not be functioning but you

could distinguish them from natural objects like rocks asteroids comets and

so forth so I I I like that I like the idea I mean you're looking under every stone literally and figuratively for you

know possible right signs of other beings or any ancient civilization um

well actually I should say that within the orbit of the Earth around the Sun there should be of the order of millions

of objects that are meter in size from outside the solar system we know that

based on the frequency of interstellar meteors these are objects colliding with

Earth that arrive from outside the solar system so we haven't really search those

millions of objects right now within the orbit of the Earth around the sun the sun is significant because it acts like

Searching for Technological Evidence

a lampost that is Illuminating so it's just like looking for your keys under the lamp poost on the street it's much

easier to find the keys so I'm saying there are millions of possible keys and

all you need to do is sort out whether any of them appears to be technological

in origin and to do that I mean we can't with the current telescopes we can't really observe uh meter sized objects

from the reflection of sunlight they are too faint but I'm suggesting you know with the investment of hundreds of

millions of dollars or a few billion dollars we can definitely study those

and not not nothing of that nature was actually done so far and I actually just

a few weeks ago I um I Heard Peter Teel uh who um uh following the presidential

election he said uh you should never bet against on musk and so the following day

I wrote an essay betting against Elon Musk because Elon said well we are

probably alone in trying to motivate um settling humans on Mars so that the

human species will be a multiplanetary species but um I try to

explain that in fact uh you know there are within the observable volume of the

universe that are 10 to the power 21 uh Earth Sun systems and we actually

know that there is no Cliff just beyond the cosmic Horizon that it the

conditions continue for at least 4,000 times farther away so there are all together 10 to the power 31 Earth Sun

systems and I'm willing to take a bet that we are not alone okay with and and

my bet is that I will put 1% of my net worth against 1% of elon's net worth in

a pool we would dedicate that to the study of any evidence as as I mentioned

for example studying all the interstellar objects in our vicinity um and then if in 10 years we

won't find the evidence I will pay a second 1% of my net worth um to him uh

so if you think about it I mean you might say that's a lot of money on his part but it's actually just $4 billion

the web telescope was $10 billion the large hydron collider was $10 billion um

for addressing equation as fundamental as that it's not unusual to spend billions of dollars in fact the next

Observatory that the mainstream as astronomy Community wants to build would

be the habitable World Observatory looking for gases Like Oxygen or methan in the atmospheres of planets as they

Transit the face of the star that host then but that will be probably in the

240s and uh it's a huge amount of money and it's not clear that we would learn

The Bet Against Isolation

whether microbes exist because you can make those gases also by natural Origins

that have nothing to do with life like geological processes and what I'm saying is with the investment of less money

than that but comparable we can not only find evidence for life but in fact learn

that there are technological civilizations in our Cosmic neighborhood yeah and I think mus

says he hasn't seen evidence of aliens which is kind of a different claim than what you're putting out there which is

that just from a statistical odds perspective there must be aliens out there oh no so so I actually addressed

his comment on that matter as well he said that not no object and that's

related to UA unidentified anomalous phenomena he said No Object collided

with a communication satellite Starling but I did a simple calculation if you

put uh a meter sized object at the same altitude as the Starling satellites so

you just put it there the chance of it colliding with the Starling satellite is Once In A Thousand Years so okay so the

fact that nothing collided with I mean Starling satellites are not really built for the purpose of searching for um

objects near near Earth uh and I I put it in the same altitude it might be in

very different altitudes than those satellite so that's not evidence for I mean it's just like saying the Starling

satellites did not detect the higs boson therefore I have no evidence that the higs boson exist of course you needed to

build a machine okay within uh CERN that

took decades to build uh that cost 10 billion that would look for the higs B

you have to build equipment that is dedicated for the task you can't just accidentally expect new knowledge to

fall into your lab because everything that falls into our lap is already known you know we see

birds uh we we we know about the Moon I mean these are things we know about because they're easy they are low

hanging fruit we've we've been seeing them since we were born and humans saw them for millions of years however if

you want new knowledge something that is not easy to get it you need to put the

effort and the money do it yeah I agree and I I think that so I guess let me press you and Elon both at the same time

now I would say I would bet one% of my net worth and I would say that if we

started searching with high frequency gravitational waves we might find them

and the reason why I say this is that you know maybe there if alien civilization exists and they are much

more advanced than we are on the time scale then I think assuming that they're going to use communication methods that

The Future of Space Exploration

we use today it's kind of egotistical on our perspective maybe we're looking at

the problem all wrong and maybe that's the reason why SEI hasn't been successful in finding messages and why

we've been kind of naive well it dep it depends what you call a high frequency because we do have the ligo experiment

that detects gravitation wav so far all the signals detected relate to Black

Hole collisions within the observable universe so what do you mean by those are low frequency gravitational waves at

least as far as I've been made aware that those are okay well they not they are the highest that we can detect from

Earth but uh there are lower frequency waves that the the Lisa experiment will

try to detect within a decade or so so actually there nobody is talking about

higher frequency although in principle gravitation waves can go all the way you know to gigahertz or higher frequencies

that we have electromagnetic signals in but to generate such waves requires a

lot of mass moving very fast that's exactly what I'm getting at because at the end of the day we're talking about

well are we cavemen on this block and if we are if there are civilizations that are out there why are we assuming that

they're less advanced than we are well they could be easily more advanced and look at how far we've come in just a hundred years imagine us in a thousand

years I don't think we're going to be riding around on SpaceX rockets and so my question to you is do you think like

Elon Musk said we're going interstep we're going interplanetary on SpaceX Rockets I don't even trust SpaceX

Rockets to take me to Mars let alone to like Europa or another star system what

about you do you think that we're going to go with that or you think it's going to require new technology no of course I mean we are

just doing making the baby steps in in in moving away from our planet right now

you know in these decades and um obviously as we develop better Technologies we would move faster and

better okay and so imagine sending uh a ship into the ocean okay that moves

relatively slowly because it's propelled by wind and then you develop a steam

ship that moves faster because it has its own propulsion so obviously you know you would

H pass the the past Technologies As you move by them so if you imagine a

civilization developing on an exoplanet at first you would see rockets that are rather primitive the chemical rockets

that we are using music coming out of the planet suppose you were looking at it and then you would see more and more

sophisticated means of propulsion coming out that move faster and and basically

reach the slower ones within a relatively short time and then go much farther and so obviously the future

would be far more impressive for us if we survive that's the fundamental question you know we we discovered

The Galileo Project and Evidence Gathering

quantum mechanics just a century ago and you may ask how much longer do we have

and if we don't leave our planet you know there could be lots of catastrophes that could destroy our technological

some of them are self-inflicted and in the form of AI or biological warfare or

maybe nuclear weapons but and political instabilities could trigger catastrophes

um and so it's important to have more than on that I agree with Elon that it's important for us to venture outside of

our planet but the question is whether that will be taking the form of humans

in space or maybe AI systems in space that's to be seen but one thing that is

the reason for finding evidence for other civilizations that preceded Us by billions of years is to see what they

have done and get inspired by by it because it may give us new ideas now the

way I approach it is not to imagine what they are to say oh they send gigahertz

gravitational waves therefore I will try to build a detector for Gig no the way

to approach it is to use the best detectors we have in any possible way you know whatever we have at our

disposal and look for things that are not familiar okay so if we have infrared

cameras you look at the sky and you see is everything in the form of birds

clouds leaves drones balloons airplanes uh satellites or is there something that

is not familiar and it's true in any domain it could be the domain of of

gravitation waves as well uh so the point is just be curious enough that

when you see a signal that is anomalous you would entertain the possibility that it may be of technological origin from

outside of the solar system and you know that's really the block that keeps scientists away from this subject it's

not the lack of anomalies it's the uh sort of the distancing from the

possibility that an object like UAA that looked weird in all ways that was different than any Rock we have seen

before they would agree with that that it's a rock of a type that we've never seen before but they would say that it's

a rock that's it and they would say the same about the Tesla Road the car that Elon Musk launched in 2018 it's a rock

of a type that we've never seen before so my point is we should be open-minded that others are doing what we are doing

that's not that's not very much actually and if you think about it it shouldn't be controversial so when

Enrico fery said where is everybody he was not trying to seek evidence he was

just entertaining himself with this question during lunchtime and you know

whenever you see a lonely person they often ask where is everybody and you tell them look don't think that you're

so attractive they will be next to you all the time you need to be proactive at the very least look through the windows

Engagement with the UFO Community

of your home to find a part partner or go down the street and check but you can't just argue I don't see them next

to me because this would have been a lwh hanging fruit and obviously they're not next to us because space is vast time is

measured in billions of years so the chance of them being next to enrio fery

in Los Alamos uh in 1951 is minuscule I mean why would

exactly at that time exactly that location uh there would be clear evidence for them I want to dig into that more in

just a sec but before that I want to get your opinion on something I haven't heard you talk about much which is what do you think about the UFO Community

because I haven't seen you interact much with like really any of them and uh you know is there a reason for that do you

avoid them for certain reasons is it too sensationalist for you go ahead no that's um that's not true I I just don't

interact with many people at all I mean I don't have any footprint on social

media okay and I don't care how many likes I get so I'm not running a popularity

contest if I would were running for the presidency of the United States obviously they would hear a lot from me

but I'm not and I'm just trying to do my work my contribution as a scientist to

addressing this question that they care about and so I'm trying to work rather

than to talk a lot of people talk okay so you might say well that's great let's

talk talk about this subject maybe it will bring disclosure well the disclosure of what we need to see the

actual evidence okay so either we see the evidence or you can just talk about it forever without making any progress

the so my point is if the government will not provide us with useful information on this issue you know the

sky is not um classified the oceans are not classified I'm dedicating my time

and effort to in leading the Galileo project that will uncover some evidence direct evidence that will

be shared with the public and that's the only way for us to demonstrate that something you know there is a neighbor

in our Cosmic Street uh and and you know the Galileo project we have a working

Observatory at Harvard University we're currently assembling two others one in

Pennsylvania and another one in Nevada they are fully funded and just yesterday

I heard from someone who might be uh pitching significant fund

for another Observatory so you know these are at the level of millions of dollars investment just over the past

six months the kind of money I'm getting from donations now there is also the

expedition that you know I I led back in June 2023 to retrieve materials from the

The Search for Anomalous Objects

first Interstellar meteor that was identified by US Government satellites and we went to the site in the Pacific

Ocean near uh outside the territorial uh Waters of papuan nugini and we retrieve materials

from the bottom of the ocean that is more than a mile deep and and brought it for analysis in the laboratory of my

colleague at Harvard Stein Jacobson and over the past year we analyzed the materials we found a fraction 10% of

those molten droplets that have a very unusual composition that that seems to

be consistent with an origin outside the solar system what we want to do is go back to that site and find bigger pieces

bigger fragments so that we can tell the nature of this object whether it was a voyager like or a Tesla like

Interstellar object uh or just a rock from another star and we have already

sort of we try to reserve a ship for August 2025 at the moment we are waiting

for funding we need $6 and5 million dollar to do the job we have a a a

exceptional team that is ready to do it so let me jump in there because first of all I have a question burning question

about the meteorite that you got out of the bottom of the ocean how did you find that did the government just come to you

like hey we've got some satellite imagery of this meteorite hit in the ocean you want to go get it because it feels like a needle in the Hy stack

situation but somehow you came up with you know real samples so how like

how yeah so the story started from um me being interviewed on the radio back in

January 2020 uh about um another meteor that

landed near Kamchatka and uh just in preparing for that I I went online and I

found this catalog that NASA has of hundreds of uh meteorites that were

identified by the fireball that they created as a result of their friction with air so they simply exploded and and

there is an array of satellites that the US government uses to detect the heat

from launches of ballistic missiles around the globe you know that yeah so um so that those satellites every now

and then see the explosion resulting from the entry of an object from outer

space that collides with Earth and they decided has nothing to do with National

Security so they put it on a public side that NASA compiles JPL the jet propulsion lab and I I became aware of

it so I told my student at the time Amir s to let's go and search through this

catalog and see if any of these objects was moving too fast to be bound by gravity to the Sun that will make it an

Interstellar object an object that came from outside the solar system because the Sun's gravity cannot bind it and we

found one that was clearly an outlier uh from 2014 January 8th 2014 and it was

moving actually at 60 km/ second outside the solar system faster than 95% of the

Understanding UFO Energy Sources

stars in the vicinity of the sun and it exploded very low in the atmosphere 20 km above the Pacific Ocean so that meant

that it had material strength that is tougher than all other meteors in the

catalog all hundreds of them it was the toughest one that this integrate

exploded only very low in the atmosphere at a very high speed and so I to me I

mean and then I reached out to the the US space command through the White House

and got their confirmation that indeed they think the data is is valid and at the

99.999% this object came from outside the solar system so there is this memo that they wrote to NASA so at that point

I decided to lead an expedition to the Pacific Ocean to search for the material now the location itself was specified in

that catalog that NASA had that's where they spotted the fireball it's not a

single point because the meteor is actually moving at a very high speed 40

kilometers per second in a very high speed and so over the time of the explosion it actually tracks uh you know

tens of kilometers uh and so there is a line or or actually they

defined a region that was about 10 kilm by 10 kilm where the where the brightest

flare occurred and we went there and we scanned that region we went back and forth Mo like mowing the loan you know

going and we collected as much material as we could from the ocean Flor these were magnetic particles altogether about

100 milligram you know of magnetic particles that looked unusual and and um

and then we analyzed them in the laboratory and found the this unusual composition chemical composition that is

very different very you know some elements are up to a thousand times more abundant than in the Primitive materials

that made the solar system and these are elements like lanum uh

berum uranium so we call it Bellow for burum lanum Uranium as a new type of

composition so I want to just dig right into it you know what I'm going to try to solve the UFO Phenomenon with avobe

right here on the live stream so let's just jump into the main question the burning question this is a UFO let's

imagine it can be some ball of light it can be a fly sauce or whatever it's just hovering around it's able to do this it

can even shoot away at high speeds what is the energy source for

this UFO that doesn't have any SpaceX Rockets tied to

it well I need to get data on it so based on the way it moves I would know

how much power is required for it to operate this way because the acceleration reflects the the force that

is acting on it we need also to know to have some estimate of of the mass of the

object in fact I wrote a paper uh just a couple of months ago H saying that from

data H that we have on the amount of heat that the object emits as a result

of its friction with the air around it just from that level of heating of the

air as it moves around and also uh how much it moves that in the sky you know

um we can infer a a a lower limit on the mass density on the mass per unit volume

of that object which is I found it to be a very interesting result you can just learn how dense the object is just from

seeing on the sky how fast it's moving and measuring how much heat it's

producing from its friction with air um and that you know that is interesting

because we have those measurements with our instruments in the Galo project and

and the if you find the the mass density from this constraint to be more than the highest density of solids that we have

on Earth that would obviously make the object extremely anomalous because then

the question is what is it made of uh and um you don't need to know the

distance to the object based on the equations that I wrote in that uh I

should I should also saying you know I uh when you said before that I'm not interacting with the UFO that's not I I

gave a lecture actually in November at the soul conference that was one of the

primary lectures there and in fact when I finished my talk I I went to the the

men's room so on the way there every few meters someone would ask me for a Selfie

by the way when I got to the men's room uh someone was just um uh drying his

hands um and he said are you AO and I said yes and he said well it feels like

standing next to Taylor Swift I didn't mean to put you down sir like I honestly

me being able to talk to you feels like Taylor I was nervous this morning I could meet Taylor Swift and I just be like oh it's Taylor Swift talking oby L

I'm sitting here I'm like oh man I gotta get ready I gota get in the right mindset I'm talking to a legend right now so no I didn't mean it that way I

just meant you don't really interact with a lot of the you know top that that's not what that's not what I what I

meant is that uh I I really uh am enjoying interacting with any person

uh and it's not like I'm shying away it's just that I don't have presence on social media that's and I hope to ask a

lot of the questions that people out there kind of have I've seen a lot of your interviews and discussions and what have you and this is where I'm going to

press a little bit more on this topic uh so let's I want to do two things first is I want to assume what you just told

me you know you you I think answered the question pretty well in terms of I need to know more data so assume first of all

two scenarios one scenario is we've got a flying saucer I'm just going to use this can and not show any ads this can

is a flying saucer so it's got Mass on it it's a solid object you know so we know that right by the way mua was most

The Shape and Nature of Oumuamua

likely flat based on a very detailed paper that you know that modeled the

variation of reflected sunlight from it at the 92% confidence this is a a paper

published in the Royal Astronomical Society monthly notices of the Royal Astronomical Society uh the best fit to

the shape of a mu was that of a f yeah I saw that and I also saw the anomalous kind of think acceleration that it had

as well so that was an interesting one but to me there you're presenting the argument that we're just using like time

time long distances and time is our energy source as opposed to if there's

really something like the Tic Tac UFO is kind of what I was getting at with the nimit situation that can move around

like this there's no onboard fuel based on our current understanding of physics that can accommodate for that type of so

there I tell you what what I would like to know is obviously we have no access to the actual data which is unfortunate

but um I would like to know you know there could be some confusion if

there there is a swarm of objects you know you might not be able to identify the same so you see an

object very far and then you see it very close but you don't know if it's the same object so it's the situation is

similar to seeing a black car behind you you in your uh rear view mirror and then

you see the black car in front of you and you say wow it must have moved really fast but without reading the

license plate number you can't really tell it's the same black car okay so there are all kinds of issues like that

and you know I I would love to be flooded with data so that we can make sure that we interpret it

correctly uh but unfortunately we are not given that data it's possible the government has it it's possible that the

government has in in its possession some uh materials or actually even

technologies that were developed by Exo terrestrials but I would like to see them otherwise just talking about it

would not Advance our knowledge we would not know if this is credible or not and when you see for example just last night

there was a report by a helicopter pilot about an egg shaped object that was

picked up with a rope you know lots of objects can look like an egg and some

many of them are made by humans uh and and and so the question is what is inside you know like what what's the

substance I mean I I a member of the Galo project uh Andy mid his grandfather

received the national Medal of Honor for because in the second world war he was

uh involved in deceiving the Nazis uh and basically putting sort of um

Understanding UFOs and Government Data

objects that look like tanks which are just inflatable that are not real tanks

and making the noise of Tanks so that the the Germans would think that they are real tanks out there so you know you

can't judge an object just by the way it looks or sounds you really have to get as much information as possible about

about the inside of it and that's what we are missing at the moment and you can't you know eyewitness test monies

are not reliable FIFA the soccer World organization already knows that because

they use cameras you know to decide about uh disputes on the soccer field uh

they would not go around and ask the players they would collect the data and look at it um you know what I wasn't

going to do this but can I show about 30 seconds of a video for you and then we can jump into some other stuff because

my opinion uh this is going to be very controversial probably what about to show you here is that this video that I'm about to show you is exactly what

you're asking for is this is some of that information that maybe the government has or videos of the

government has this is a thermal video here that we're looking at just ignore the plane for now I just want to focus

on these orbs because of what you said about the mass energy density of these objects and

these UFOs if this is real I want to point out you can see it's very faint

but you can see there's dark lines in front of these orbs which represents a cold

signature and you can tell that there's a heat signature in here I couldn't stop thinking about this when you were

explaining the mass energy density so I think this is a ball of plasma and that

would be your medium for this UFO which and this part I'm just going to slow this down so you can see it very closely

and clearly because I want to understand in the context of what we're seeing here um you know the physics of what we're

going to talk about with dark energy Dark Matter this idea of there being like an ether Zero Point

Energy the reason why I believe in those theories is because of what I'm looking at right here I mean look at that heat

signature on this orb oh yeah that that's very interesting now who took this the images so without

going into too much of it that's Malaysian Airlines flight 370 the plane that disappeared 10 years ago and what

you're about to see here oh interesting is the most controversial thing kind of on the internet recently is that that

plan's gone play it again so you can see but okay now do we know that these

images were not manipulated we don't know with any level of certainty uh I don't want to like have this whole

podcast be about that but I just wanted no but that's that's very interesting I mean I'll be glad to look at it more

some people think that these videos are fake and they debunked and what have you other people including myself think they're real but the reason why I bring

it up is not just random I'm not trying to promote myself here is that we see these dark lines in front of these orbs

and that seems to be their propulsion mechanism and what we see right here is also all black when this plane

disappears which means it's now the the the the camera that took these um where

was this is a drone taking this this is a general atomics drone you can see it in the beginning of the video right

here okay I wonder for example whether the there is any footage from the you

know US Government satellites of that funny that you asked because there's a second video I I don't mean to knock you down

the rabbit hole right now but there's a second video of the from we found out this is like this

is cbers when you mentioned cbers like we found out this is cers this is the space based infrared

system but this is actually more than what the Public's aware of it's not just like looking through satellites they can

beam all the data together and then it can create a computer generated video which watching and you can see the

Exploring Controversial UFO Videos

coordinates in the bottom left too so this is the same yeah same thing from a different perspective I'll just let you

watch it because I guess you haven't seen it well that's very interesting the

reason why I brought this up Sir is just because you know you and a lot of people talk about wanting evidence and I've

been the same way as you I've had the same thought process as you the only reason why I have a podcast is because I saw these videos and I went wow I mean

maybe that's fake but what if it's real what if this is really what happened I mean look at what you just saw right

there and this has led me down a journey of Discovery I'm going to stop sharing for now where I've been trying to

understand this physics and this science and truthfully just to open up here for a second it's led me to you because I've

watched a lot of your stuff and you're not afraid to talk about these Concepts where everybody else is afraid that oh

what we're seeing and what we're talking about violates the laws of physics it can't be possible no no that's not really I I

don't think there is any violation here because we are talking about the speeds that are relatively mild you know the

speed of an airplane but um um what I would like to know primarily is Who

provided these videos because we need to make sure that they're not fabricated yeah I'll give you the short version there's a guy named Lieutenant Commander

Edward C Lyn they went to prison for like he had a nyear sentence and I've identified him as the guy they started

looking into him right after the plane disappeared he was flying on spy planes and um it's very likely that he either

leaked those directly or he showed somebody else and they got on the internet that way um and yeah and

there's a plane that's been missing for 10 years and somehow there's two leaked videos it turns out they go all the way back to May 19th 2014 so they're 10

years old and they only recently got attention and it makes me wonder if we

had to like get to a level of Consciousness where we could accept some of these scientific possibilities

physics possibilities to be real oh it's it's not the it's not a matter of Consciousness I think it's just a matter of good data because U you know uh Ryan

Graves was claiming that there are a lot of objects that pose a risk to pilots

and he's advocating for safety and what you are saying is very similar to what

he's saying that perhaps this flight was affected by these objects

now he is very concerned about the safety of of pilots and and and and he

has an organization dedicated to that and I encourage you to show him this yeah and I think the difference here and

this is the crazy part about those videos is that that's not aliens that's not aliens we're watching like because

that's the US military filming that on two different assets you know like from two different angles that's an operation

and this is where it starts to get really dark and I don't want to go into the conspiracy rabbit hole with you but it's like if this is true all of

everybody's worst fears in the UFO Community about the US government hiding technology reverse engineering it

they're all true and then the further implication is well how far would you go

to prevent China Russia North Korea Iran from getting this Tech this

technology well we we know that at the same time there was the Chinese pie

balloon that was shut down and there are objects above the us that are not identified obviously because that

balloon was 40 m in size and smaller objects would be even more difficult to Det Tech and there was of course the

incident over New Jersey for several weeks where PE citizens complain about and it's clear that that is not

extraterrestrial because first of all the objects were moving like drones okay and secondly once the law enforcement

got into business um you know it this there were no more reports I mean we don't hear

them now and so it's clearly human related and the only question is whether that that was

these were drones from adversarial Nations or you think it's possible that we have or that other countries have a

National Security and Advanced Technologies

level of Technology that's beyond what the Public's Weare oh I mean there are lots of reports about China being um uh

similar if not ahead of the US in drone technology and uh drones are extremely

important for National Security now because in the battlefield in fact um Elon Musk was advocating using drones

and not training Pilots traditionally uh and we've seen them being used in the

Ukraine war so drones are definitely a very important asset now for uh combat

and and also for Espionage and so the only question is how how many of them

are being used right now that we don't even know this go now

yeah I should say that um we um obviously within the Galo project you

know if we see drones um uh we will identify them as drones based on their

flight characteristics and the way they appear and we are actually calibrating our instruments based on on on drones

and we had a paper um uh just a few months ago that provided the the first

commissioning data of half a million objects in the sky over five months next year this year I mean 2025 we hope to

get of other more than a million objects monitored in the sky but from the

half a million that we had analyzed you know the the we posted analysis without

having triangulation without having distances and as a result of this paper appearing publicly we were contacted by

a professor who is doing uh studies of of drones and he wanted with us to

explore the ability of our cameras to detect drones and uh that's a very good

calibration for us because we would know where it is how far it is how bright it should be in the INF you're filming it

infrared or what how are you what sensor dat are you using yes uh the currently the Workhorse

is a set of eight cameras that are covering the entire sky in the infrared

and um they are they are placed on a half a sphere they look like R2D2 from

Star Wars and then uh this is called a d instrument and it's all in our paper on

the commissioning data that one can find you know from a couple of months ago and

um in addition to that we are observing in the optical in the radio and the also

recording acoustic data and magnetic uh data as well so we're trying to use the

all the instruments we have access to within our budget so let's get more controversial with it this is going to

be a great interview so what I learned from research in those balls of plasma I

was showing you earlier or whatever was that really the big secret was that space isn't really empty and I watch

your interview with uh Jimmy Church fed de black and and several others where you've also mentioned that there's this

energy density of SpaceTime well seems like Quantum physicists call it Zero

Point Energy that's out there all the time and one of the things I found out was that once that got realized people

started figuring out they can make balls of plasma that are like autonomous like self-sustaining like there's a invisible

field creating like a bubble around it pretty much and so then I start looking back at all the stuff I was taught in

physics because I'm I'm not really you know I didn't go to school for physics but I love science and physics and I

realized like oh wait well we have this stuff dark matter and dark energy it's supposed to explain the stickiness that

we can't otherwise explain and I start wondering like can this just explain all

of that and turns out there's this ether hypoth hypothesis that's been out there forever and the plank ether hypothesis

by Fred wart winterberg who is a Project Paperclip scientist that came over what

are your thoughts on all that I've got to know what do you think about the ether and you think that's so so let let

The Nature of Dark Energy and Propulsion

me let me first explain what these Concepts represent so um we now know

that the universe is not only expanding I mean we knew that for a while for about a century that the universe is

expanding but uh in the second half of cosmic history

the universe is accelerating in other words the expansion rate is increasing

meaning that a very distant Galaxy away from us is not only receding from us but

the speed at which it's receding is increasing with time and eventually it will exceed the speed of light okay so

we will be left in the darkness in the distant future uh because all the galaxies that are far away from us are

running away at a speed that keeps increasing and once they reach the speed of light even light would not be able to

bridge the distances of those galaxies from us so we won't see their whereabouts Beyond a certain time they

will exit from our Cosmic Horizon okay so we know the universe is accelerating and according to Einstein's Gravity the

equations that Einstein wrote back in 1915 November 1915 uh you can accommodate repulsive

gravity in other words we are used to the fact that if you throw an apple up it falls down right right so that's what

Newton associated with gravity being attractive but um just imagine throwing

an apple up and the Apple keeps running away from you faster and faster as it moves away and that's repulsive gravity

it's exactly the opposite sign of gravity where things are running away instead of coming together and according

to Einstein's equations that can be simply a result of the vacuum itself you

know if you remove all matter you are left just with the vacuum and the if the vacuum itself has some mass per unit

volume uh even if it's constant everywhere it will have exactly this

repulsive gravity effect that will cause the accelerate accelerated expansion of the universe so so this is the current

standard model of the universe that includes some energy or mass per unit

volume for the vacuum which is called the cosmological constant but a

physicist framed it in terms of dark energy they said oh that the vacuum has some energy that you know per unit

volume that we don't know its nature and we call it dark energy so that maybe it's not it's not constant maybe it

evolves over time and there are some hints that it might at any event the

reason it's important in the context of what you asked is because if we had a way to bottle that energy to basically

and put it inside a vessel and and concentrate it uh then you would get a

negative Mass okay H concentrated it will not be spread everywhere like the

vacuum is it will be con and that if you have negative Mass you can do two things

uh one thing is you can Propel a spacecraft with no fuel because you

would have this negative mass and it could push a positive Mass away from it while the positive mass is attracting

the negative Mass with it and so you would end up accelerate this system will end up

accelerating up to the speed of light with no need for an energy source so it gives you a means of propulsion this

negative gravity that otherwise you cannot access without Fuel and the

second thing is you can show that you can build a time machine if you had negative Mass you can go back in

Plasma Physics and Its Implications

time now we haven't yet found a way to we don't understand what dark energy is

and maybe aliens do and maybe they're able to engineer it in some way to

create a negative Mass if they're able to do that you know then they have a way

of propelling objects without any fuel okay so that that to address your your

question now the issue about plasma and by the way plasma physics was the area

where I I I focused from for my PhD that this was the subject I worked um on a

project that was funded by Star Wars and the initiative of President Regan uh and

actually General Abramson that led this Star Wars initiative back in around

1985 he visited Israel where I was born and I presented the project to him and

uh that was the first International project that was funded by Star Wars and it's sort of ironic that I started uh in

in in in Star Wars and now I'm discussing inter travel but um that's

what brought me to the us because we got funded by Washington I used to visit Washington DC and then in one of the

visits I went to The Institute for advanced study at Princeton and was offered a five-year Fellowship in

astrophysics that was the condition only if I switched to astrophysics I was a plasma physicist before that so I

switched to astrophysics and then I was off at a position at Harvard where I am right now and so um the my uh interest

in astrophysics was a result of circumstances it was not planned but um

I'm I now have this freedom of addressing problems that I find to be

consequential and and exciting for the future of humanity and that's why I'm

back to to this subject of interstellar travel um and uh I should say that in

the context of plasma physics plasma is you know if you just deposit heat into a

small volume like in an explosion you end up with very hot gas in which the

atoms are broken into their constituent electrons and the ion so you end up

with a fluid that is made of charged particles that's what a plasma is a

fluid made of charged particles and um it's a result of any deposition of heat

into a small volume that usually results from either focusing lasers or or explo

detonating something or uh but actually most of the universe is in a plasma

State because of the ultraviolet light that was emitted by stars that

ultraviolet light uh breaks hydrogen atoms into electrons and protons so you

end up with most of the hydrogen in the universe being in a plasma State uh

there is nothing magical about a plasma it's just a state where you break the atoms and molecules into their consed

electrons and and ions that's all so when you say plasma ball it's just a

region of space where some energy was deposited okay so then the question is what's the energy source that created

this plasma and that's really the key question and what what was you know how much heat is emitted by this we can

detect heat with infrared detectors but the concept of a plasma is nothing mysterious or nothing fundamental not as

fundamental as dark energy that I was talking about before I would say say there's something kind of magical about

it lightning why does lightning happen lightning is plasma as well in fact they call these balls yeah so lightning so so

I can let me explain that then basically what happens is clouds you know that they're made of water vapor right and as

they move through the atmosphere they get charged okay they they get net electric charged and then when two such

clouds um get in contact uh there is an electric current if they don't have the

same voltage there is an electric current flowing from one to the other and that often happens through breakdown

of the air so you end up with d the air is the conduit it's like a wire in which

you run the electric current and because you are running an electric current through the air you basically heat up

the channel of air in which the electric current is going and that's the lightning so you see a very bright

streak on the sky because this is a region a channel where H electricity

heated the air to become very hot and luminous and you see it as a and you also hear the sound because what happens

is once you hit this channel of air uh there is a high pressure in it and

pressure um runs away from that region in a shock wave or a sound wave that

eventually reaches your ears but sound propagates a million times slower than

Negative Energy and Its Potential Uses

light so at first you see the light of the of the lightning and then you hear the thunder and that's that's all there

is to that thing so it's basically what what you see when there are these bright

phenomena in the atmosphere you see regions that were heated by electricity

yeah and we can manipulate that and that's the thing where ball of lightning is a ball of energy and so you were just

mentioning if we could or aliens could make a war Drive Miguel alu's warp drive

metric we're talking about adding or removing negative and positive mass and

mass is energy is what Einstein showed us so if you can make a ball of energy that seems like the perfect conduit for

trying to produce you know a warp drive metric in my opinion because it's a huge condensed ball of energy right that's my

thought process yeah well okay so so there are two parts to this just the object moving through air if the object

interacts with with the air like any object does um there there is heating of

the air okay that glows around the object and we see that when meteors enter the atmosphere we see that when uh

rockets fly through the atmosphere there is heating of the surface of the rocket when it as a result of its friction with

air so that's one part of the plasma you know like it's it's basically the heated

air the the amount of energy given to the air by the motion of the object okay

that's one part of the and and there is a second part that you are referring to which is the propulsion system which

must generate some energy and perhaps potentially be visible so when you look at an airplane you can obviously see the

heat emitted from the exhaust which is basically related to the engine you can

also see the heat emitted from the contact layer between the airplane and

the air so these are the two components that have nothing to do with each other just the that the object is moving

generates plasma around it and some heat but there is also the heat the energy

source that propels the object which is a separate mat and that's the part where going back to the videos I was showing you earlier seeing endothermic

propulsion blew me away because like you said I would expect to see to be see some friction happening which shows that

somehow they found a way to make a bubble now long story short done a bunch of research Air Force research Labs Jack

ma champkin they figured out how to stabilize balls of plasma so they can make them stable right yeah no I mean so

one thing to keep in mind is that radar systems respond to the reflection of

radio waves from those plasmas generated by fast moving objects so obviously the

military wants to reduce the signature of any object uh to radar systems and

one way is to reduce the cross-sectional area to make the object flow through air such that it has a very minimal cross

action and and as a result very little signature in radar systems and so

human-made objects that are used by the military are

minimizing uh the the amount the amount of plasma generated around them yeah

they also reduce drag as well they use plasma sheaths for our spy planes as well so I just thought oh this is the

perfect conduit if you were to make an anti-gravity ball you would just get rid of the plane and the person and just be

left with your ball of plasma and now that thing can just float around and no but you need okay you need to put the

object with its engine uh yeah inside and that's really the key the key is not

so much what we see but what is there you know like uh and that's you know

that's something that we can collect data on by observing it or retrieving anything from let me ask you I want I

want to ask before I forget about the negative energy aspect of it because I looked into that it turns out there's people like working on negative energy

lasers and there's a professor out of NYU named David Greer who has like a

tractor beam laser as well but Eric W Davis who's been connected to the UFO topic openly talks about them trying to

amplify negative energy and isolate negative energy from positive energy in light and if that's true then what I

imagine those orbs are using is some kind of laser that's pulling energy out of the vacuum as opposed to adding

energy to the vacuum have you ever heard of anything like this well I in principle uh you know as I said before

in principle it's possible to um activate the vacuum and pull energy out

of it um but these Concepts I mean uh

there are various effects that are well known for example if you have two metal

plates um and you place them close to each other you are changing the vacuum

in between them because you're allowing only certain modes of the electromagnetic field in the vacuum to

exist because the metal plates place boundary conditions that allow only certain wav

lengths of the electromagnetic modes to exist between the plates and as a result you get some force acting this is called

Exploring the Casimir Effect and Propulsion Theories

the Kazmir effect and it has to do with a vacuum um and uh but it doesn't allow

us to propel anything and of course you can speculate and imagine and I've seen some documents where people like Eric

Eric Davis speculate about what might be doable but I should say there is nothing

at the moment that allows us to construct uh a propulsion or imagine a propulsion system I've been working with

a group that U uh you know we we we asked the question is it possible to

create a negative Mass object and you know just that will uh uh produce

repulsive gravity and um we had to imagine the existence of a fields that

we don't know exist it was not the electromagnetic field was now I cannot exclude that such Fields exist and are

known to another civilization and we are just as I said in the baby making the baby steps in understanding quantum

mechanics gravity so I wouldn't exclude anything I would just say uh let's just

learn from them okay so if we find anomalous objects moving in anomalous

ways we should just get as much data as possible about them I feel like you did kind of answer it though and this is the

part where I kind of want to push you on because you said now that we've got this dark energy that's causing the universe

to expand outward and it's this negative gravity repulsive gravity that we feel

yes well when Eric Davis and other people explain the Casmir effect they explain this as negative energy and

anything forces just described is defined as the ability to do work so if we're seeing plates magically come

together on their own there's some Force that's happening there oh yeah no but that says you know that

was known for the past Century that there is nothing really new about it and the only question is can we actually

Propel an object using a device that takes advantage of the kmir I mean so

what Eric mentions is all speculation about you know maybe we could engineer

something but there is nothing behind it because this technology was never attempted as

far as I as far as I know he would have gotten don't care about no prizes it's a scary thought right

but uh it's not a scary thought but um I I don't think uh you know I I think it

we would learn about it because somewhere sometime there would be a leak

uh of this technology you know in some context and um haven't heard anything uh

let's come back to that thought in a second so the next step I would say is like the EM Drive The Impossible Drive I

would argue is basically just taking the Casmir effect and making a slight asymmetry and then you're going to get a

pressure a force pressure going downward and you use that to move through the ether of energy that's out there um

actually what I really wanted to get at was that uh the dynamic Casmir effect I was curious if you've heard of that at

all but also and the dynamic Casmir effect for people who don't know is this idea that you can pull so much or you

Dynamic Casimir Effect and Engineering Challenges

can put so much electromagnetic flux or energy density within a region that we can actually pull those virtual photons

into real photons real light that comes out uh and they think this happens at the edge of black holes as well um

because I'm looking at like for me it's a matter of just engineering the problem once you've shown me that two plates come together like this and that there's

this negative energy pressure now I'm sitting here wondering what is negative energy maybe it's not this swirly mass

of substance maybe we're thinking about the problem wrong maybe it's just a pressure as that that's what the energy

is and maybe if that's the case then we just have to look at it as an engineering problem and it takes me back

to plasma where I realize well the issue with the plates is once they come together I got to pull them back apart

so what if there's a way where I can just have this permanent situation where I'm getting this free energy or like a

bounce like a trampoline or something like that but with plasma when I started to research it one of the things I

learned is that it changes the plasma changes the permitivity of SpaceTime and

this changes the refractive index so bear with me for just one second I want to give a quick example and then I want

to get your opinion on this is that if I were to take let's say a cube of water

from the ocean or the lake and I would to remove all the things inside of it and I were to show someone just that

Cube and I would say what do you see in this they would probably say nothing and I would go you're wrong there's water

inside of that and they go well I just see a index and I would say well let me shine a laser through it so that you can

see that the refractive index bends and changes well you can do that same thing without her space it's only going to

change a little bit based on what wherever medium I'm in but it's going to change my idea that I'm presenting here

is that a fish stuck in water doesn't realize it's in a fish bul it looks around it and says that everything else

is empty around it but it's obviously not necessarily empty so if we were to

change the speed of light change the refractive index in a plasma or any other medium what does that do to

general relativity and to the physics equations that's the question for you OB

Professor l yeah so in fact we see the effects that you're talking about are observed we do see uh the effect of

gravity in bending light this is called gravitational lensing so when you have a positive Mass let's say of a cluster of

galaxies usually 10 to the 15 uh quadrillion times the mass of the

Sun uh it can bend the light from sources of light behind it and we see

these beautiful arcs where uh a background Galaxy was actually stretched

to a ring around the center of the cluster that is called gravitational lensing we also see the same effect when

there is lensing by a star if you have a background star behind the foreground star you can get gravitational lensing

Albert Einstein realized that this effect should be observable potentially uh back in 1940 but he

didn't imagine the kind of data we have now now if so this is gravitational lensing

by having a concentration of mass as the lens but um there is of course a

possibility of lensing by a plasma because as you said the there is a refractive index to a plasma and it

turns out to be of the opposite sign so if you have a concentration of plasma in

a certain ball then it actually the light would rather than being focused it

would diverge by passing through it okay in order to focus light what you need is

a region where there is less plasma than the background and then it would focus

light and we do see in astrophysics circumstances that show that uh you know

we detect radio signals from pulsor for example or radio sources we see the

effects of the Plasma on that on those radio signals because the effect of the

plasma depends on frequency and we can see that frequency dependence so what you are describing is observed in the

universe but there is nothing really magical uh about a plasma in terms of

propulsion um the way I think of it is you know if there is a system that has

some novel propulsion abilities as a result of a some unusual engine of a

technology we we don't possess then there might be a plasma around as a

consequence of that engine moving the object but but that's not the the essence of the thing and then and of

course we can observe the plasma because we use infrared or detect the heat but

but it's the fundamental question is what's the engine made of and you know if there there is any such engine in

possession of the US government I would love to see it okay and then I can tell my just manipulating The Ether the same

way the submarine floats down through the water at that point all you need is like Magneto hydrodynamic flow and then

you can just yeah it's definitely definitely possible and um uh but I

haven't seen that demonstrated by any engineer at the moment I don't want to harp on it too much I would just

challenge you that I mean at least my opinion I think a lot of other people's opinions not necessarily common is that

you know they're hiding some of this stuff from us either using the invention secrecy Act of 1951 or the atomic

secrecy act where they claim some of this is related to like nuclear weapons and like that therefore they protect it

The Ethics of Secrecy in Scientific Discoveries

that's how the story goes well if if if that's the case I think it's completely inappropriate because uh if objects

arrived from outside the solar system um they should be the subject of science

not the national not of National Security concerns because um you know they started their trip towards the

solar system long before humans existed probably on Earth and obviously they don't care about borders n Nations and

uh any knowledge related to to to what lies outside the solar system should be shared by All Humans uh it's part of the

reality that we live in it's just like trying to classify the knowledge that the Earth is not at the center of the

universe now the Vatican tried to do that when Copernicus argued otherwise

and you know in 1992 the Vatican admitted that Galileo was right that was 20 years after the first humans reached

the moon a little bit too late and what I'm trying to say is that hiding information uh is not to the benefit of

humanity because eventually we will learn it it will take more time but it's

actually to our advantage uh to know what the reality is because we can adapt

to it so once we realize that we're not at the center of the solar system that the the that Mars for example does not

orbit the earth uh we could we could launch rockets that would reach Mars because we understand through the laws

of Newton how Mars moves around the Sun if we were to think that Mars moves around the earth like the Vatican was

arguing we would shoot Rockets like crazy and never reach Mars so my point is even if the reality does not flatter

your ego you better adapt to it I mean it's sort of like you having a disease

and you say I don't want to to hear that I you know I will never die is that good

for you no because if you know what the disease is you can fight it you can

adapt to it in some way it's much better in my opinion to know whether we have a

neighbor because once we realize that we will recalculate you know just like a

GPS system we will recalculate the next steps accordingly but if we ignore that

if we hide it in some classified documents that's actually a sign of us

not being intelligent I think it's out there I think that it's it's hidden in plain sight and I look forward to people

like you you know sharpening your Pitchfork you and Eric Weinstein to go down to the National Science Foundation

and and demand because like you just said the Vatican already did it once do you really think that the government wouldn't do it again I think that they

might but your point is perfect and I've said it many times on my live streams is that you can't hide this forever you no

matter what I try to express my opinion with the transition team of the new

Administration and uh I'm not sure if anything will happen you know that two

possibilities either the government has some uh very interesting information or

or it doesn't and if they don't then there is nothing for us to to learn about from them if it exists I hope that

they will um share it because it's of Great Value to science and and Humanity

in general and it will save me Decades of work I mean I will work at it but if they already have something I would love

to help so let's press it even further then okay so I'm going to tell you I'm going to give you a hypothetical scenario I just want you to run with

The Potential of Alien Technology and Free Energy

this assuming this is true because I think if we play out the scenario you start to realize maybe it is what if the

alien technology represents free energy and by free energy I don't mean from nothing I mean that this Zero Point

Energy all around us turns out it's not this tiny amount the answer to the vacuum catastrophe is that there's this

huge amount of energy the aliens have figured out how to tap into it they don't need solar power or anything

they've got energy everywhere all around them all the time now imagine how what

would that Civilization look like if we realized that that technology exists

imagine how the US government might try to weaponize that technology imagine what that would do to our entire

Society so would you still be on the side of disclosure if that's the case

where we would potentially be handing over free unlimited energy to every person on the planet that might also to

your point earlier be a time machine as well but yeah so you know this question

comes up again and again when science uncovers new knowledge that we did not

know before and it was true in the nuclear age when we realized nuclear physics and then you can imagine using

nuclear energy both for destructive measures nuclear weapons you know and at

the time it was World War II you know it was quite dangerous if the Nazis were to develop that and Eisenberg wner

Eisenberg one of the founders of quantum mechanics was leading the na F4 uh so

that that was a real risk but and of course the second option is to use nuclear energy for peace and prosperity

you know that can be a very useful source of clean energy much better than any other source so we always have

whenever we understand reality better we have uh the options of using it uh to

our detriment or to our benefit and that will remain now I don't think the

solution is to argue we should go back to our to the Stone Age okay I I I'm not a

believer in the philosophy of thoro Henry thoro who lived very close to where I live near you know he went to to

the Wen Pond and and stayed there for a year arguing that the Industrial Revolution is really harmful for our

interaction with nature I don't think so I think for example if our

Technologies uh for example um change the climate it's it doesn't mean we need to go back to the stone AG we just need

to develop new technologies that would moderate the impact of our Technologies

on the planet so in other words we can solve our problems with better technology not by reducing our level of

technological innovation so we should always be motivated to use it for a good cause and therefore we should never head

back in time okay we always move forward it's just like riding bicycle you know you always need to move forward in order

to stay stable if you argue that we should stop you know um using Cars

airplanes and so forth Just for the benefit of the planet you are really not thinking ahead because what needs to be

done is developing technologies that would uh moderate any impact we have and

and remove actually compensate for any impact that we did already have on the planet uh and the same holds for your

question so Suppose there is an alternative source of propulsion that we are not aware of you know as long I mean

we can can definitely use it for the benefit of humanity we can Propel people out of this planet much more easily we

can we can solve all of our energy problems um people will live better we

have better life you know the same is true about AI there was this me memo that was written by a group

of experts that tried to say to argue that uh any development of AI should be

stopped for six months that was a year and a half ago and um I thought that makes no sense because okay you stop

stop it for six months what do you do next um and really what needs to be done is making sure that AI will not harm

society and the many possible risks and I write about them in my essays and as long as you are aware of the risk from

AI harming National Security harming the uh mental state the mental health of of

young people as long as you're aware of the risks you uh you can develop ways of

The Future of AI and Human Integration

um mitigating them and and and and progressing in a a more constructive fashion and so In The Same Spirit if we

have access to a new propul system that far exceeds our Technologies I'm not

worried about it because we can always use it to our benefit and there would be some bad actors always you know there

are bad imagine nuclear weapons falling to the hands of terrorist organizations

at the moment that they don't possess it um imagine um AI I being used by terrorist

organizations um you know that currently it hasn't happened uh so you can imagine

any new technology that could have devastating consequences including you

know uh biological warfare uh you can imagine those getting to the hands of

Bad actors and then damaging the future of humanity but of course if you uh

arrange your geopolitics such that bad actors will be punished very severely

and nobody would cooperate with them then these Bad actors will not have a a global impact they might have you know

they might do some Act of terrorism in a particular place at a

particular time but after that they would not survive okay because there would be an immediate response to that

so my point is as long as we uh use what we learn uh for our benefit and not use

it as a weapon you know we can survive for a very long time in fact knowing better how to propel ourselves would

make the longevity of humanity uh much longer than the next Century I mean we

will leave our planet go elsewhere just imagine instead of using this

traditional rocket technology that Starship is based on you know if we were to use something much faster much more

efficient everyone would would love to to go on such a SP what Spooks me about those videos I showed you earlier is

that when I watch those I go wow wow like that's very similar to meal Al's warp drive metric but they don't have a

fixed structure attached to the plane that they're zapping out of the sky or at least it looks to be moving at

relativistic faster than light travel now what the conclusion I've come to I

love all your opinions by the way but that with this UFO stuff and everything is that the answer must be really dark

and free energy and the ability to teleport around and using all this propul mechanisms that's a pretty dark answer means like we're basically just

ants and either the aliens are pretty much just Gods compared to us or maybe

AI won a long time ago and this is all simulation I I don't see it as dark I I see it as uplifting and inspiring just

imagine that you are in a class and there is a smarter student in that class why is that depressing it's uplifting

imagine all the all the students were were stupid you know like then you I would be depressed under these

circumstances because there would be nothing to learn okay but if there are neighbors that are far more advanced

than we are we can learn from them and do better I mean when I look at the the news every day I I I really get

depressed I get depressed by how not intelligent uh we are in in the way we

interact with each other and uh and between nations and just having someone

to be inspired by that is better than our politician would be a great thing I'm 100% with you on that and I I love

that because I'm really pessimistic about this like looking at this science I'm like thinking like op himer like you

know I am become death destroyer of worlds like I keep thinking like this is going to be the end this is the fmy

Paradox we're staring at it so on this I I must say on this that

um um you know reality is very often a self-fulfilling prophecy okay so it's

better to be an optimist if you are a pessimist um very often you will end up

fulfilling your prophecy and not enjoying life and if you have some

something that inspires you that that could bring reality to a better place there is some chance that you would

realize that and um therefore in in this context you know first of all I don't

think that Humanity attracts a lot of attention I don't think that we are sufficiently intelligent for them to

care about us if they arrive at our vicinity it's not because they care about us it's because there are some

other resources that they might want to explore and you know we have to be here

but um uh for us it's a great opportunity to do better cuz we technologically speaking we we are just

roughly a century old and um we can learn from someone that was around for a million or a billion years just think

how many opportunities they might have that we don't I'm with you 100% And I think I I remember I watched when Jimmy

Church asked you actually why you do this and it's like I'm looking for someone smarter out there I'm looking

for someone that's not you know the way I interpreted it someone that's not just on Tik Tok all the time or just

constantly talking about social political issues somebody that's like actually trying to make the world like a

little bit better or looking at from a higher level and the reason why I say this again is that I'm and this would be

me challenging you on it on on you have some amazing thoughts but like imagine even bigger where a scenario where the

aliens aren't even biological aliens anymore maybe they're a hive mind maybe they figured out free energy and now the

sun doesn't matter and the card Chef scale is basically irrelevant and now you're a species with no scarcity

whatsoever you have no scarcity so now resources that doesn't even matter anymore that's wild to me because I

think that in a scenario like that AI wins like AI I would upload my brain to

The Nature of Intelligence: Biological vs. Artificial

the computer because you have Infinite Energy quite it's quite possible but but suppose that intelligent life or complex

life on Earth was seeded you know by a gardener uh that was an AI system that

came along and decided to plant some seeds of complex life and here we are

okay so uh what kind of complex life would you plant uh you want to plant a

self-replicating entities and that's exactly what we are okay so we use the

raw materials on Earth uh to reproduce to generate more and more and evolve and

um you know our Technologies at the moment are unable to rep to to to produce

something like that we we don't have a robot that can manufacture a robot like

it we don't have that we don't even have self-healing cars you know when a car

gets bumped it doesn't heal I mean the human body I just fell this morning when I was jogging because it was icy on the

on on the asphalt you know every morning I jog at Sunrise and it healed by now I

don't feel any pain and so that's the amazing thing about biology and you know maybe Life as we know it was seed the

complex life that we have uh was seeded you know by some technological device

and if you think about it it would be the best thing to plant basically systems that are able to

reproduce themselves and use just the raw materials uh they have a brain even

the human brain the most abled brain on on this planet as of now before AI will

exceed it uh even that requires only 20 watts of energy that's remarkable

because our AI systems chat GPT large language models require gigawatts so we are very sophisticated

if you think about biology the human body and maybe it's not a coincidence

maybe that the we are the self-replicating propes on using the Raw materas on the rock where the seeds were

put and um you know the only way to find out is to to find the gardener that's a

great thought Obi and you know what I think we'll probably end it on that this has been an awesome conversation on the physics on the science my last question

was going to be what is your thought on non-human intelligence but I have a feeling you just explained it to me right there oh well um I think there are

two types of AI one is artificial intelligence these are are technological

kits that may supered our abilities they're already getting there uh in fact

I just read this morning that the um that some people um fall in love with

large language models they develop very close relationships uh and um um eventually

you know we would realize it's it looks like an oracle because it it is smarter than us okay but there is another type

of AI and that is alien intelligence which may also be smarter than us and

then the question is who would we find first because I'm trying to promote the

second option and I know that there are big tech companies trying to promote the first

and there is sort of a race at any event we will not be the only intelligent or

the most intelligent species uh within a decade either AI will uh artificial

intelligence will do it or if we find evidence for alien intelligence it will do it uh and for me finding a neighbor

you know is following the Messianic message of of traditional

religions you know the the assumption is the Messiah will arrive and bring peace and prosperity a better future uh to

humanity but I just believe that that Messiah will will come from another star

no for me my opinion is that I don't really care about aliens I assume that they're real I assume that there's life

actually everywhere out there and to me it's just a matter of like you know unless they're changing my day-to-day it

just doesn't really matter that much to me I think it's a cool idea and I love EXP exploring it and I really appreciate exploring with you but the stuff that

would change my world would be if we can warp or teleport around I can have a Stargate in my garage and if I have free

energy well but but that that could depend on the first thing so the point is if if you have someone that you can

learn from that's that addresses your second interest and for me you know they will give us inspiration and to do

better so uh let's look for them and that's what I'm trying to you know I'm not talking about them I uh I I'm trying

The Search for Extraterrestrial Neighbors and Their Impact

to find one last question that I just came up with because you were talking about in a battle or however you want to

think of it doesn't have to be adversarial but in a competition or relationship between Ai and organic life

do you see one being superior to the other do you see there being an integration of the two in the long run

any thoughts on that oh yeah um you know humans through

natural uh selection um were I mean the human body was designed to survive on on

Earth protected from cosmic rays very energetic particles by the Earth magnetosphere and atmosphere um and you

know it's really very hazardous for us even to go to Mars the surface of Mars

uh you know doesn't have the protection of an atmosphere and then moreover the

temperature changes by hundreds of degrees between day and night and you know so when thinking about going there

you really need to solve the problem how to protect humans and one way is of course to go into a cave under the rock

uh so that would be just like going to prehistory when we occupied caves uh if I ever go to a cave on Mars I would like

to check the the cave walls to see if there are any prehistoric paintings

there because Mars had an atmosphere two billion years ago and there could have been complex life back then and um so I

would argue that the technological gadgets like systems with artificial intelligence could be designed to

survive Interstellar travel they will not get bored uh over the long journey

and they could be hardened to survive the harsh conditions of space moreover you need a brain when you go large

distances because you can't uh ask for guidance from the senders it takes too

much time for signals to propagate and bridge between you and the sender and it's just like sending out your kids

away from home they will report back every now and then about the highlights of their Journey but if they keep

calling you all the time they can't go a long distance uh it just takes too much time for the communication requires too

much power so in this case I think technology basically equipping

Interstellar Travelers with a brain of their own an artificial intelligence

system is really a must for them to to function integration is most likely

scenario in the long run yeah I mean it's possible that we humans

will not I mean we are the last generation that went to funerals it's possible that uh within a decade or two

I was just talking about it uh with George Church geneticist and he thinks

that um we might not die I saw that yeah uh and uh you know in that case you can

start to imagine augmenting the human body allowing it to Traverse great distances an indal space um and then

maybe yeah and that's one of those big ideas as well along with like free energy and other propulsion mechanisms

that I think completely revolutionize how we look for other life and we look at our civilization so aob Harvard

Professor thank you very much for talking to me today on harre podcast this has been an awesome conversation feel free to shout out where people can

find you I know you're not big on social media but where can people find your content yeah I write essays on medium so

if you just search for aob ATM medium.com you can subscribe for free every day or two you will see a new

essay that provides you with an update about the space astrophysics all the

Galo project and then otherwise there will be a Netflix documentary coming out

this year by the end of this year and uh I know that um it should be very

exciting they came with me to the Pacific Ocean and documented what we did there um and the reason I I know it's

exciting is because uh a member of I I heard from a

girl uh in another country that wrote an email to me she said that was just a few

weeks ago she said um keep doing what you're doing you have a huge uh amount

of support from many of us and don't surrender to any critics uh because I just watched the first 25 minutes of the

documentary uh about your work and I said said um thank you so much but I

think you saw another film it's it's not a documentary because it's only supposed to come out by the end of 2025 and she

said well here is a photo of the television screen and you're in day five of the Expedition and uh I'm actually a

member of a club of Netflix that gives them feedback long before the film is

released and the so she got extremely excited and that's why I think it it

would be a good one and um uh so that will come out there are several other uh

things that will come out that I cannot speak about uh one thing that I can mention is that there is a

sculptor uh the most accomplished American sculptor he was named America's

Roden and he made two sculptures of Galileo galile in bronze the size of a

person that then he hopes to deliver to my office in the coming months and um

then my office will turn into a small Museum I I I don't think I'll I'll

charge any fees but I will I I removed all the file cabinets from my office to

give enough walk around space and this should be beautiful I'll have to come by when I'm next out there and come see the

sculptures when they're completed and I've read your blog your I guess it's a Blog on medium I I think it's great

reading all that content that's out there and thank you for the sneak peek as well you have an ally in me and my supporters as well anybody that speaks

out against consensus is willing to ch challenge preconceived notions is always somebody that I will support um so thank

you very much sir thank you for your time and have a great day